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Thread: Reducing Magic Damage     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
    Salvage Bans
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    Reducing Magic Damage

    There seem to be different understandings about the mechanics of reducing magic damage, so I thought I'd try to gather everything together here. There are basically 4 ways to reduce magic damage:

    1) Resists

    People have had great success tanking Tiamat and such with fire resistance setups. 300+ seems to be the magic number to get full resists on most elemental attacks. However, the amount of damage taken varies randomly, and sometimes you can still get hit for full damage.

    2) Magic Defense Bonus

    Multiplies magic damage by 100/(100+Total MDB). For instance, MDB+12 from WHM37 subjob reduces Fafnir's Hurricane Wing from 368 to 368*100/112=328.

    Because MDB is a divisor, it has diminishing returns. If a magic attack normally does 100 damage, MDB+10 will reduce it to 90, but MDB+20 will only reduce it to 83.

    If you have a Barelement spell of the appropriate element cast by a WHM with Barspell merits and/or Blessed Briault, you get +2 MDB per merit and +5 MDB from Briault.

    MDB does not affect Mijin Gakure damage.

    MDB does not cap.

    Shell does not give MDB.

    3) -Magic Damage Taken

    Reduces magic damage directly. Listed percentages on gear are actually an approximation for a fraction of /256. Magic damage is multiplied by (256-Total -Magic Damage Taken)/256.

    Shell factors into this term: Shell II is -36/256, Shell IV -56, Shellra V -62, -64 or -66.

    Like physical damage reduction this term caps at -128/256 damage, but MDB and resists can continue to reduce damage once that cap is reached. This is most significant for Aegis PLD, since Aegis+Shellra V.2 is enough to cap this term without any additional -magic damage gear.

    This term does affect Mijin Gakure damage. I've read several posts saying that Shell doesn't affect Mijin, but in Dynamis-Beaucedine on Tuesday there were two Mijins, and the tank party I was in had the damage reduced exactly by the amounts above. On the first I had Shell IV and the others had Shell V, and the damage we took varied accordingly (base 1093, Shell IV 853, Shellra V.1 828). Furthermore, since Shell is reported to factor in to the same term as -Magic Damage Taken gear, it wouldn't make much sense for Mijin to be affected by gear but not Shell.

    (Aside: Diabolos seems to take 1/8 damage from Mijin for some reason, has anyone else noticed this?)

    4) INT

    As Genosync pointed out below, adding INT reduces magic damage from Elemental Magic spells, and sometimes from other sources of magic damage, notably Gear/Chariot AoE WS in Salvage.

    References:
    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Calculating_Magic_Damage
    http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=457670
    http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=432694
    http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=376144

    Edit: Barspell update
    Edit: INT
    Edit: minor updates
    Edit: corrected shellra V numbers

  2. #2
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    WHM barspell merits only effect spells of the correlated bar. Example: If you have barfire up and a blizzard IV hits you, then 10MDB does not apply.

    Also, i thought shellra V had a static +20-something MDB?

  3. #3
    Relic Horn
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    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I was always under the impression that bar spells, no matter how they are cast or enhanced, only add to the resist rate, not damage reduction. Hence explaining why several times I've seen friends take, say, 340 damage from Firaga III while I took 680 when I missed Barfira. (as an example)

  4. #4

    I believe it was discussed recently that Mijin Gakure might be classified as Breath damage, seeing as its damage is a function of HP and Jailer of Temperance, which has 100% magic defense, takes damage from it.

    Also, I don't get the point of this thread. Are you asking a question? Or just restating what we all already know?

    Edit: Oh and barspells increase resists (your section 1) not MDB.

    Edit 2: Sorry misread, I didn't realize you were talking about barspell merits.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizerdRemora
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I was always under the impression that bar spells, no matter how they are cast or enhanced, only add to the resist rate, not damage reduction. Hence explaining why several times I've seen friends take, say, 340 damage from Firaga III while I took 680 when I missed Barfira. (as an example)
    Meritted bar spells are 2MDB per merit...10 total MDB for 5 bar merits.

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5904/mdbml3.jpg

  6. #6
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    Quote Originally Posted by WizerdRemora
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I was always under the impression that bar spells, no matter how they are cast or enhanced, only add to the resist rate, not damage reduction. Hence explaining why several times I've seen friends take, say, 340 damage from Firaga III while I took 680 when I missed Barfira. (as an example)
    Meritted bar spells are 2MDB per merit...10 total MDB for 5 bar merits.

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5904/mdbml3.jpg
    Ohh ok, I missed the word "merits" in his post. Carry on, then.

  7. #7

    INT reduces magic damage, as well as increasing magic damage dealt.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genosync
    INT reduces magic damage, as well as increasing magic damage dealt.
    It depends on the spell type. (at least I'm pretty sure it does)

  9. #9
    Xavier
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    Shell is -Magic and not MDB, really?

    Ignore my ignorence, but w/ Shell 5, does that mean you only need another -25% magic damage taken to hit the cap for -% Magic Damage taken, and that the rest should go into straight MDB or resist?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    Shell is -Magic and not MDB, really?

    Ignore my ignorence, but w/ Shell 5, does that mean you only need another -25% magic damage taken to hit the cap for -% Magic Damage taken, and that the rest should go into straight MDB or resist?
    I really question this. We have a PLD with Aegis in LS and im pretty damn sure my barspells can effect how much unresisted damage he takes with shellra V on.

    Edit: ^2am mindfuck. MDB would still lower the damage taken. Still, ive been under the impression for quite some time now that shell was MDB.

  11. #11
    Xavier
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    Being an Aegis PLD, I kind of feel like Shell is MDB, not -% Magic Dmg Taken, since I don't feel like I'm naturally at the cap w/ just the shield and shell, excluding MDB bonuses.

    If thats really the case, then I guess its just pure MDB instead of -% magic dmg taken in the other slots for me then.

  12. #12
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    ...Those shellra mods aren't working out for me. Looking back at some past test that were recorded for bar damage reduction...

    In ballista (yes BLM damaged is gimped in ballista, but the %'s should still remain in tact). No gear was changed during any of the tests.

    BLM cast Thunder IV on WHM for 775 damage unresisted. WHM casts shellra IV. Damage drops to 653. About a 15-16% reduction. 56/256 (Shell IV mod) would be appx a 21% (floored) damage reduction.

    Switch to Shellra V (with one merit), damage drops from 775 to 633. THats about a 19% damage reduction. However, 64/256 is around 24%. Not adding up.

  13. #13

    Ok, let me clarify even more things on INT:

    INT not only will reduce the damage of the spell by a set amount, but it can also eliminate the tier bonus from the magic spell cast by the mob, if high enough. Works the same way you casting the spell on the mob does.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    ...Those shellra mods aren't working out for me. Looking back at some past test that were recorded for bar damage reduction...

    In ballista (yes BLM damaged is gimped in ballista, but the %'s should still remain in tact). No gear was changed during any of the tests.

    BLM cast Thunder IV on WHM for 775 damage unresisted. WHM casts shellra IV. Damage drops to 653. About a 15-16% reduction. 56/256 (Shell IV mod) would be appx a 21% (floored) damage reduction.

    Switch to Shellra V (with one merit), damage drops from 775 to 633. THats about a 19% damage reduction. However, 64/256 is around 24%. Not adding up.
    Ballista isn't a valid place to test magic damage. The damage equation itself doesn't even work there.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nivlakian
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    ...Those shellra mods aren't working out for me. Looking back at some past test that were recorded for bar damage reduction...

    In ballista (yes BLM damaged is gimped in ballista, but the %'s should still remain in tact). No gear was changed during any of the tests.

    BLM cast Thunder IV on WHM for 775 damage unresisted. WHM casts shellra IV. Damage drops to 653. About a 15-16% reduction. 56/256 (Shell IV mod) would be appx a 21% (floored) damage reduction.

    Switch to Shellra V (with one merit), damage drops from 775 to 633. THats about a 19% damage reduction. However, 64/256 is around 24%. Not adding up.
    Ballista isn't a valid place to test magic damage. The damage equation itself doesn't even work there.
    We followed up with Ouryu to parse the test results, and the Bar damage reductions lined out pretty much perfect. I don't see how/why they would skew the damage reduction mods, especially something as fundamental as shell. (of course the damage equation is skewed since BLM damage is intentionally gimped in ballista).

  16. #16

    Ouryu's not exactly wonderful for testing things either;

    Try a mob with regular INT to give you more accurate percentages and nonsense.

  17. #17

    If you want an accurate test that results in something more conclusive than "how barspells work in ballista" you need to test against normal targets. The best way I can think of is how we tested Amir set bonus, which is to have the same mob cast the same spell on the same target under two different conditions, or a -ga spell that hits two players with the same INT and otherwise equivalent damage mitigation.

    And yes, Shell is definitively not MDB, and is also demonstrated to accumulate in the same term with "magic damage taken -%" armor.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genosync
    Ouryu's not exactly wonderful for testing things either;

    Try a mob with regular INT to give you more accurate percentages and nonsense.
    What do you mean by regular INT? Im sure his INT (unless DRK absorbed) doesn't change throughout the fight. Air damage on ouryu is amazingly consistant like it is on tiamat. So i really dont see how the damage reduction modifiers would some how change just because it's ouryu, or maybe you could elaborate on why exactly they would. Would be incredibly easy to test if our Aegis PLD was online right now. Damage taken with Shellra V and damage taken with Shellra V and merman's earring. See if theres a change.

  19. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    Quote Originally Posted by Genosync
    Ouryu's not exactly wonderful for testing things either;

    Try a mob with regular INT to give you more accurate percentages and nonsense.
    What do you mean by regular INT? Im sure his INT (unless DRK absorbed) doesn't change throughout the fight. Air damage on ouryu is amazingly consistant like it is on tiamat. So i really dont see how the damage reduction modifiers would some how change just because it's ouryu, or maybe you could elaborate on why exactly they would. Would be incredibly easy to test if our Aegis PLD was online right now. Damage taken with Shellra V and damage taken with Shellra V and merman's earring. See if theres a change.
    What exactly do you intend to test? It's been previously demonstrated that Shell is of the same type of damage reduction as magic damage -% gear. You don't even need to hit the cap for that, just look at how stacking them affects the difference in damage (since in that term bonuses become more potent as you add further reductions of that type due to the way they are calculated). If you are to test anything with shell and aegis, it would be that perhaps Aegis has its own special reduction (possible, I suppose, but unlikely), or the existence of the cap itself (and for that I would recommend using Shell 4 and other damage reduction items, since Valyana's numbers for Shell 5 are his own and I have no idea how he arrived at them).

  20. #20
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    Well that would be precisely what would be tested. If there is a 50% -magic damage cap and aegis can account for -25% damage and shellra V can supposedly (even if shell IV is used, there is raw data of the exact damage reduction) account for another -25% then any other -magic damage items (like a merman's item) would be completely useless and the damage values wouldnt change what-so-ever. Another way, i suppose, would be to take unresisted damage with aegis and no shellra V, then take the same unresisted spell with Shllra V and no aegis.

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