Thread: Dex Builds    

http://bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic...783341#p783341

scroll down a bit and you'll find some numbers;

from my experience it's rarely ever worth the haste loss especially on jobs that are supposed to tank (such as Warrior and Ninjer) unless the gear you're using is bringing something else to the table along with the DEX boost (Askar head also increases STR doesn't it, it's free and...doesn't look like a wrapped-up towel), I'm generally the only voke and the one who ends up monopolizing the mob's attention for the majority of the fight in the merit parties I'm involved in so that's a no brainer for me without having to resort to convoluted mathematical analysis concerning how x% Haste would affect your DPS as opposed to +y% Crits in so and so conditions.

In my opinion DEX builds weren't meant to revolutionize the way melee gear up themselves but rather should be aimed at maximizing your performances by cleverly exploiting the Crits/DEX relation wherever switching in DEX gear is possible without hurting too much, as far as functionality goes, your previously existant TP build: depending on your total Dexterity pool and on the target's AGI a couple points might generate quite a noticeable difference, the mileage however may vary (in before shit is situational, etc.), hence the "Crits bonus from Haidate being a placebo" crap spred all over the net back then and refuted at a later time. People weren't being malicious about it, that 15 DEX just wasn't doing much for them since they hadn't reached the threshold past which the Crits boost accrues and becomes noteworthy.

They do wonders on Colibris (they work better for 1 handers though, since apparently they seem to benefit from a slightly higher Crits rate enhancement given the same amount of DEX, compared to 2 handers) and depending on what you're fighting they become a viable alternative even at MMJ SP, however they require a lot of gear swapping and macros specifically tailored for each kind of mob (they'd be sort of pointless against enemies with overwhelming Agility, Lurkers docet and why would you melee in 121 DEX on a mob against whom your crits rate would cap out at just 115?), if you're going to half-hassle it you'd be better off not bothering with them at all and despite using a moderate DEX build more often than not I still keep Haste, Accuracy and to some extent, Attack and STR in higher regard than nearly any Critical Hits rate improvement. People going all out with DEX are just as foolish are those who've overlooked the repercussions of Dexterity on Crits for so long.

That being said, they're definately the bomb (up to the 24% cap) for Vorpal Blade and generally for any multi-hit WS that has a chance to critical and relies on a relatively low attack rating, either due to the lack of Atk-boosting abilities/traits/gear/whatever or because of the inherently low combat skill but Mighty Strikes made that kinda obvious a while ago already.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...haubyaskar.jpg
Sorry for blurriness, got double compressed when i made it smaller twice.
I just got Askar hands this week, and finally sat down to tinker with it a bit. Only had one really really short merit pt on colibri, but it was pretty entertaining. (no food, +50 with sushi, +47 with pipira)
It's probably overkill (that's Love Torque) for now, but Askar head would be needed to remedy it best. I don't think I lose out on much haste/acc, tried to avoid that at least. I need to revamp my macro set on WAR to have significantly more setups within easy range, cause I think it won't work well without more effort outside of colibri camp. It was nice hitting 30% crits though :D (40min merit pt, so actual numbers are probably much lower, don't want to misrepresent stuff)

Why do you want to back to DEX build on your ninja again if you are less likely to accept meriting in bird camp with ninja

Originally Posted by Falaras

Thanks for the response retreiving, it was pretty informative and answered a few of my questions but I was actually looking for real experiences.

yw, I thought you would've noticed this stuff in the thread linked above without having to quote, sorry:

Originally Posted by Searain/Retrieving/etc.

REGARDING MELEE HITS:


posted by: Retrieving/C.D/Searain

Here's some data my friends and I have collected in the past few weeks of merit'ing in two of the most popular camps:

Code:

Nyzul Isle (Greater Colibri)

90  DEX -> 11,49% Crits;
91  DEX -> 17,50% Crits; (w/ Destroyers)
94  DEX -> 11,22% Crits;
94  DEX -> 12,52% Crits;
95  DEX -> 12,63% Crits; 
95  DEX -> 12,83% Crits;
95  DEX -> 13,14% Crits;
96  DEX -> 12,62% Crits;
96  DEX -> 12,42% Crits;
100 DEX -> 13,28% Crits;
101 DEX -> 13,72% Crits;
109 DEX -> 15,86% Crits;
110 DEX -> 17,61% Crits;
110 DEX -> 17,58% Crits;
110 DEX -> 23,20% Crits; (w/ Destroyers)
110 DEX -> 20,62% Crits; (w/ Senji)
110 DEX -> 17,52& Crits;
111 DEX -> 20,89% Crits;
112 DEX -> 21,07% Crits;
115 DEX -> 21,47% Crits;
117 DEX -> 23,03% Crits;
118 DEX -> 24,04% Crits;
118 DEX -> 23.38% Crits;
118 DEX -> 23,31% Crits;
118 DEX -> 24,41% Crits;

Code:

MMJ SP (Jade Sepulcher - mixed mobs)

74  DEX -> 15,20% Crits; (w/ Destroyers)
77  DEX -> 15,69% Crits; (w/ Destroyers + Pahluwaan Body)
83  DEX -> 13,46% Crits; (w/ Senji)
92  DEX -> 11,81% Crits;
97  DEX ->  8,96% Crits; (only #2 Crits merit upgrades)
99  DEX -> 17,91% Crits; (w/ Senji)
100 DEX -> 10,18% Crits;
100 DEX -> 10,35% Crits;
105 DEX -> 14,15% Crits;
105 DEX -> 14,36% Crits;
113 DEX -> 13,17% Crits;
113 DEX -> 15,38% Crits;
113 DEX -> 15,71% Crits;
113 DEX -> 18,40% Crits; (w/ Senji)
116 DEX -> 17,94% Crits; (w/ Senji)
120 DEX -> 17,93% Crits;
121 DEX -> 18,01% Crits; (Skoffins camp: 20 Puks, 17 Skoffins, 7 Lurkers, 16 Infiltrators, 20 Mamools, 6 Pets)
121 DEX -> 18,85% Crits;
121 DEX -> 18,56% Crits;
121 DEX -> 19,00% Crits;
121 DEX -> 18,23% Crits;
121 DEX -> 18,37% Crits;
121 DEX -> 20,31% Crits; (Central camp: 53 Puks, 14 Skoffins, 1 Lurker, 40 Mamools, 9 Pets)
121 DEX -> 19,48% Crits;
138 DEX -> 23,54% Crits;

I combined our data with Bastilla's results, previously posted in the first pages of this thread since they seemed to match perfectly the Criticals % variation observed in our tests.

The Critical Hit percentages listed above are including the +4% from merits unless explicitly mentioned otherwise, haven't been sweetened using Mighty Strikes or Rogue Roll (of course lol) and the sample size was generally fairly large (1000-2000 hits) since each data corresponds to a different party/another PT member perticipating to the same exp session keeping a costant amount of Dexterity on him while TP'ing, for testing purposes.

I can provide screenshots of the parsers if needed, in case anyone is either skeptical or questioning the reliability of the source, or simply curious.

EDIT: 11/6 updated.

EDIT #2: 10/8 updated.

EDIT #3: 30/10 somewhat updated once again.

EDIT #4 3/11 slightly updated.



REGARDING MULTI-HIT WEAPON SKILLS


posted by Nagamaki:

As for weaponskills, each "Critical damage" weaponskill (as stated in their descriptions) seems to operate fairly simply. The base crit chance is your crit rate on regular hits against that target with your gear, and fTP is the amount of % added to the base amount.

The following fTP numbers are approximations from memory for demonstration, you could find the true value relatively easy with some patience and testing.

Backhand Blow (mainly tested at 100%, higher is semi guess)
100% Critical Hit Rate +40%
200% Critical Hit Rate +60%
300% Critical Hit Rate +80%

Rampage (tested reasonably much)
100% Critical Hit Rate +0%
200% Critical Hit Rate +20%
300% Critical Hit Rate +40%

So if you're a MNK with a 9% crit rate, 100TP BB will have a crit rate of 49%, 200TP will be 69%.. If instead your crit rate is capped from DEX at 24%, it'll be 100TP BB will be crit 64%, 200TP will be 84%..

With Rampage at 100% crit rate is same as your melee hits, and it goes up by approx 1% per 5 TP. Limited Jin tests seemed to show a similar pattern, I would guess its probably similar across the other multihit crit WS.


CREDITS:

Thanks to Zirk for starting the research thread on BG, to Kwontess for the tests posted on Allakhazam, to Nagamaki for the test on Rampage, Backhand Blow and Blade :Jin, to Hotpeppa, Bubi and Starfox for the additional data and to VZX for the wiki updates.

Not sure how Baha's hitting 30% Crits as War/Nin unless the cap (which is supposed to be +20% from DEX alone) was ninja-removed in one of the recent patches (haven't merit'ed in a little while so I wouldn't know), either that or he was exping with a Corsair (or the party was so short the relatively low sample size skewed the result, which is somewhat likely for a 40 mins session).

Originally Posted by Retrieving/C.D/Searain

Not sure how Baha's hitting 30% Crits as War/Nin unless the cap (which is supposed to be +20% from DEX alone) was ninja-removed in one of the recent patches (haven't merit'ed in a little while so I wouldn't know), either that or he was exping with a Corsair (or the party was so short the relatively low sample size skewed the result, which is somewhat likely for a 40 mins session).

I am fairly sure it's horribly skewed, it went down from 35% (after the first 8 or so birds) to 30, would've dropped more over time to the normal number I think. I'm sorry if I misrepresented anything, I just wanted to add that a DEX build without sacrificing too much was still noticeable.