March 10th PUP WS testing~

[Faithe]

Except on HNMs, which generally have AoEs, you could not maintain such low HP generally while TPing on the automaton (not to mention that the magic frames have HORRENDOUS accuracy).

Not all HNMs spam AoE that will hurt your puppet. Sky gods and some sea gods(Like the previous exmaple jailor of love) would be good for this. If I'm fighting something like Ultima or Omega, I'll probably use a different frame instead.

Also, not all magic frame have horrible accuracy. Try Valorquin, it rocks.

[Faithe]

I had Replicator up at all times so it spammed blink.

How? Unless you have incredible timing and spammed <pettp>, this would make the automaton use Knockout. Also, SSs of Magic Mortar damage please! We need some good numbers in this thread.

I'll try to get a screenshot when I test this out in sky this week.

But putting up blink isn't that hard. It takes the same recast as stoneskin and eat wind maneuver after its done. Besides, just put up a light maneuver if you mess up and it'll trump Magic Mortar over Knockout.

[Gaea]

I've gotten it to go off with 1x Dark, Fire, Thunder up (so Flame Holder+Fire Attachments can get bonus on WS). If you cycle Thunder/Wind/Fire and get Dark up when TP is about to be ready it forces WS and prevents you from having to keep the Dark maneuver up too much.[/quote]

So Dark Maneuver forces this WS with fire and thunder maneuvers up? I thought puppet would be stupid and do Arcuballista or Daze. I haven't had the chance to test yet>< Been Friday and Saturday are busy with events for me.

ANother thing I noticed with Inhibitor, puppet likes to SC with Daze on Howling Fist even with fire maneuver is up. I probably would have noticed this sooner but I kept leaving Inhibitor off because I wasn't happy withit insisting on doing lower level crap weaponskills ;/ Shame we cant Solo Darkness like we can solo Light but that would probably be broken LOL.

[liefe]

Except on HNMs, which generally have AoEs, you could not maintain such low HP generally while TPing on the automaton (not to mention that the magic frames have HORRENDOUS accuracy).

Not all HNMs spam AoE that will hurt your puppet. Sky gods and some sea gods(Like the previous exmaple jailor of love) would be good for this. If I'm fighting something like Ultima or Omega, I'll probably use a different frame instead.

Also, not all magic frame have horrible accuracy. Try Valorquin, it rocks.

Maybe. But you still have to factor in that the mage frame would take an exceptionally long time to get TP versus using ADD and spamming blizzard4 instead. It doesn't really make much sense to use that over the magic since they're both magic based, no?

[miokomioko]

==Magic Mortar tests==

Automaton: Harlequin body + Valoredge head
HP: 1311
Attachments: none
Magic Mortar usage at TP:116-124%


Magic Mortar #1
HP total: 1167/1311 (~89%)
HP missing: 144 (~11%)
Magic Mortar damage: 73 (~50.7% of HP missing)

Magic Mortar #2
HP total: 450/1311 (~34%)
HP missing: 861 (~66%)
Magic Mortar damage: 447 (~51.9% of HP missing)

Magic Mortar #3
HP total: 409/1311 (~31%)
HP missing: 902 (~69%)
Magic Mortar damage: 458 (~50.7% of HP missing)

Magic Mortar #4
HP total: 65/1311 (~5%)
HP missing: 1246 (~95%)
Magic Mortar damage: 647 (~51.9% of HP missing)

Magic Mortar #5
HP total: 28/1311 (~2%)
HP missing: 1283 (~98%)
Magic Mortar damage: 666 (~51.9% of HP missing)

Magic Mortar #7
HP total: 1/1311 (~0.1%)
HP missing: 1310 (~99.9%)
Magic Mortar damage: 690 (~52.6% of HP missing)

Magic Mortar #7
HP total: 1/1311 (~0.1%)
HP missing: 1310 (~99.9%)
Magic Mortar damage: 690 (~52.6% of HP missing)

[JigglyJam]

Fire Maneuvers apparantly up the damage significantly.

Leave it to lolAlla to find out about lolPUP.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...;num=25;page=1

Another thread with a little bit of snippet about Magic Mortar:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...7;num=8;page=1

I'd go out and mess around with it myself if I was 70+.

[Jkun]

I don't believe anything Alla says without images tbh. 2888 Magic Mortar? lol, ok.

Interesting tests and thanks again for all the input, keep it up guys :D The sooner we crack this the better.

[miokomioko]

I planned on being a lot more extensive with it... as in: testing with maneuvers up, testing with different max-HP attachments, testing with mage-heads and mage bodies, but it took fucking -forrreverrrrr- to not only bring myself down to 1hp to Role Reversal, but to also drain my automaton to 8mp so it wouldn't cure itself. (why it didn't cure itself if it had just enough mp to cast Cure1, I have no idea). I have a feeling that Automaton Magic Skill might boost the damage a little bit, but from my tests here, it seems pretty obvious that with Harlequin body/Valor head 100% TP = 50% HP lost >> damage, even with my 5/5 magic skill merits and 3/5 melee skill merits. It seems like a slight boost of up to almost 53% from 50% with the addition of ~25 TP... which is lol. With this set-up, maybe you could geta total of 75% lost HP >> damage with 300%tp on a mob when someone opens up a SC that Magic Mortar can close. Suck.

I'd have to start all over to test different frames/heads, and I'm tired of this, heh.

::edit:: In the long-run, I think creating a set-up that maximizes Magic Mortar by dropping hp to zero would be far too difficult and time-consuming to be worth-while on any kind of HNM, especially when any AoE-move or hate-pull will kill it instantly. Unless you have something similar to Frenzy Sallet that could easily and quickly drop your HP to 1, this isn't really worth the trouble, although I would like to see a 1-HP automaton sit there Magic Mortar-ing Jailer of Love for this alleged ~3000 dmg... *rolls eyes*

[Naramaska]

(not to mention that the magic frames have HORRENDOUS accuracy).

Do you mean physical or magic? We took a PUP out for a spin on Ouryu yesterday, and they were doing consistant 400-550 damage nukes to Ouryu, with very very few resists. Makes me strongly wonder about how they'd do on Tiamat

[liefe]

(not to mention that the magic frames have HORRENDOUS accuracy).

Do you mean physical or magic? We took a PUP out for a spin on Ouryu yesterday, and they were doing consistant 400-550 damage nukes to Ouryu, with very very few resists. Makes me strongly wonder about how they'd do on Tiamat

Physical. With tranquilizer/merits/etc the magic accuracy is very good.

[Nateypoo]

Leave it to lolAlla to find out about lolPUP.

lolalla was always the place to go to for lolpup, so I don't see why that's surprising. tbh I can't think of a single thing that came from here or KI that wasn't tested on alla either first or in more depth. If this place had separate job forums, I would have posted my testing on overload, analyzer, etc here instead. I don't like the long threads and combined forum style though. The other good source of PUP info is the "failwiki". If you don't like using it, you're totally welcome to copy anything and everything I've posted to the bg wiki or forum. I'm not sure what the rules about verbatim are, but you have my express permission for whatever that's worth.

Personally I don't believe in the lolforum mentality, but I do believe in lolposters. I see the same people on BG, KI, and alla so I'm not exactly impressed by forumism. The only difference is there is occasionally a brilliant poster here and there on BG, but the general populous seems the same otherwise. Sadly, this is not true for PUP. I don't know if it's because it's a loljob or whatever, but I've never found anything useful here for PUP. In fact, I've actually found false info, such as that Japanese translation claiming cannibal blade was affected by MAB and an outdated spellcasting AI. I just don't know. I like BG, just not for PUP.

I don't believe anything Alla says without images tbh. 2888 Magic Mortar? lol, ok.

I don't need an image to prove anything, because if you're skeptical it takes all of two seconds to test. Seriously. Quit posting and go do it. I personally have done more for PUP than the entire BG community combined; it's kind of ridiculous to question the easiest test in the world, especially coming from me, just because I posted it on lolalla. The magic mortar was done on a greater colibri with 101% TP, three fire maneuvers, and 67 HP. It's not like it only happened one time either. I did it over and over, at least three dozen times, for a consistent 1000-2888 damage depending on HP. There, I posted it on BG. Happy now?

This is not to say it's viable just because it does a lot of damage. It's an okay weaponskill. I'm sure there are incredible uses for it, but only under extremely specific situations. I would say it shouldn't be difficult to get the harlequin to pull off 1000-1500 pretty safely. You probably need ventriloquy to make this viable though. I want to test out its damage type soon, if it even has one.

And in case that wasn't enough, here's a screenshot. I guess I should have taken one of the 3600 magic mortar on lesser colibri, but I was too busy crapping my pants. That's not even the max; I think you could near 4000 if you really wanted to epeen it with 1 HP and some automaton +HP gear.

[Dreampainter]

OK, so I posted on the alla testing thread already about my findings, but MM is quickly becoming my favorite puppet weapon skill. There is no need to drop the puppet hp all the way down to 10%, although it is true that lower hp = higher damage. I don't have screenshots because I can't get it to work correctly recently and I was just on official windower, but the results of recent claims can be confirmed by ANY pup with the 5 minutes to go out and try it.


The inhibitor has had some adjustments sneaked in and the puppet will now try closing the highest skillchain it can manage. In this case it means that with inhibitor on, the harle-whatever will always try to close light with MM if you use something that can chain light with it. On top of this use 2-3 fire maneuvers when weaponskill is nearing (with flame holder on) and the damage on MM does indeed skyrocket.

I was farming a scroll of stone IV for my sch in Quicksand Caves testing out all the weaponskills. My results on DK > MM = Light were interesting. Copypasta from my post on Alla:

At 1018/1400 hp with 3 fire I got 1120 MM +1120 light. Highest I was able to reach after I took the trial run to colibri was 2180 MM _ 2222 light at about 300/1400 hp.


Now the only mystery random weaponskill lacking awesomeness is bone crusher. Wish that weaponskill made some sense like the other two.

Edit: thanks for posting that SS natey. And its really a shame when the mob dies from MM before you get to see the crazy Skillchain damage it can do.

[liefe]

Leave it to lolAlla to find out about lolPUP.

lolalla was always the place to go to for lolpup, so I don't see why that's surprising. tbh I can't think of a single thing that came from here or KI that wasn't tested on alla either first or in more depth. If this place had separate job forums, I would have posted my testing on overload, analyzer, etc here instead. I don't like the long threads and combined forum style though. The other good source of PUP info is the "failwiki". If you don't like using it, you're totally welcome to copy anything and everything I've posted to the bg wiki or forum. I'm not sure what the rules about verbatim are, but you have my express permission for whatever that's worth.

Personally I don't believe in the lolforum mentality, but I do believe in lolposters. I see the same people on BG, KI, and alla so I'm not exactly impressed by forumism. The only difference is there is occasionally a brilliant poster here and there on BG, but the general populous seems the same otherwise. Sadly, this is not true for PUP. I don't know if it's because it's a loljob or whatever, but I've never found anything useful here for PUP. In fact, I've actually found false info, such as that Japanese translation claiming cannibal blade was affected by MAB and an outdated spellcasting AI. I just don't know. I like BG, just not for PUP.

I don't believe anything Alla says without images tbh. 2888 Magic Mortar? lol, ok.

I don't need an image to prove anything, because if you're skeptical it takes all of two seconds to test. Seriously. Quit posting and go do it. I personally have done more for PUP than the entire BG community combined; it's kind of ridiculous to question the easiest test in the world, especially coming from me, just because I posted it on lolalla. The magic mortar was done on a greater colibri with 101% TP, three fire maneuvers, and 67 HP. It's not like it only happened one time either. I did it over and over, at least three dozen times, for a consistent 1000-2888 damage depending on HP. There, I posted it on BG. Happy now?

This is not to say it's viable just because it does a lot of damage. It's an okay weaponskill. I'm sure there are incredible uses for it, but only under extremely specific situations. I would say it shouldn't be difficult to get the harlequin to pull off 1000-1500 pretty safely. You probably need ventriloquy to make this viable though. I want to test out its damage type soon, if it even has one.

And in case that wasn't enough, here's a screenshot. I guess I should have taken one of the 3600 magic mortar on lesser colibri, but I was too busy crapping my pants. That's not even the max; I think you could near 4000 if you really wanted to epeen it with 1 HP and some automaton +HP gear.

Amazing. Do you have animator+1?

[Psion]

Ok, I was just testing MM in Rolanberry feilds (S), and wow, it really is true that flame holder ups the damage insanely. I used the inhibitor trick to build tp to 300, then got my friend Civin to dragon kick for me since my pup is 73 :elmer: anyways, i only used double auto repair kits to boost his hp to a little over 1400. I couldve used adaman sainti + AF body but i was lazy :s. anyways, heres screenshots of Oniwaka having 2 hp left, 300 tp, and 3x fire maneuvers, on goobbues. sadly, I found out they just DONT have enough hp. ;;

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...315_034223.png

Here is the first shot, which we found to our sadness we did too much damage. so, we tried it again, this time with civin going naked to avoid doing as much damage as possible.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...5_035156-1.png

More sadness as we found that we need some qutrubs for this. :bagel:

Finally, a fun picture of when i first got to try out armor piercer, it does over 1100+ for me sometimes on greater colibri at 73, and with oniwaka being 13 skill behind cap. (sorry, gotten my last several levels in campaign.)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...311_004240.png

I'm thinking for magic mortar we're gonna need to have vent., role reversal, and a thf or three to accomplice our insane hate we get after taking it from our automaton heh. still, with vent. on a 3 minute timer, perhaps this could be the new "chi blast" of the future for non AoE mobs?
Thats all for me so far!

[Nateypoo]

Amazing. Do you have animator+1?

No. Don't even get me started on how much einherjar sucks. -.-

The 3600 was without af body and without adaman/gem sainti. Not sure how much HP I had. It was real low, but not 1 anyway.



Also, I didn't do a skillchain in the screenshot. You don't need the inhibitor in order to stack three fire maneuvers on with magic mortar. Slapstick is thunder and knockout is wind, so neither override mortar with a fire.

There's only one trigger element for each weaponskill.

Those are some hawt mortars.

[miokomioko]

According to a quick little test... head/body/magicskill/meleeskill does not affect damage output or TP multiplyer for Magic Mortar.

Magic Mortar damage @ 100%TP = (MaxHP-CurrentHP)/2


Doing the same thing with 3 Fire Maneuvers and Fire Holder:

Magic Mortar damage @ 100%TP = ((MaxHP-CurrentHP)/2)4

aka: 3 fire maneuvers = http://www.quake4portal.com/info/images/quaddamage.jpg

if 300%TP really does increase the calculation to straight up (MaxHP-CurrentHP) with all appropriate HP+ attachments and equipement...

Magic Mortar @ 300% TP and 993(ish?) HP with 3 fire maneuvers should deal about 3972 damage... excluding the skillchain that would result. (with spiritreaver/stormwaker)... would be more like high 5000s or 6000 damage with Harlequin body...


Now, what can you use this on that wouldn't draw hate and murder your automaton? What could you use this on that wouldn't AoE and murder your automaton unintentionally? What could you use this for at all? Brittle Rocks? (p.s. has anyone seen if magic mortar is resisted by those? I could pup/drk to finish my lebros items >_>)

[Toth]

So PUP, with a little tweaking, is able to do higher damage weaponskills to merit mobs than other 'uber' class melee jobs. Oh, do I love this.

[Jkun]

Testing Bone Crusher in Apollyon (The one with damage resistances) to find out it is indeed a blunt damage WS. Did 0 damage to slimes but 600+ to Skeles.

I'd post screenies but got Salvage!

[Toth]

Now that we know how MM works, how best can we configure our automaton to use it effectively in exp parties?

Use Harlequin frame with double Auto Repair tanks and then use Role Reversal when HP goes down?

I'm guessing the key is to have the automaton's MP around 0 so it cannot cast cure on itself. What tactics have you guys been doing to get your HP down?

[Jkun]

I'd guess, go /WAR, and ask to eat some damage at the start of a fight. I'm sure they won't mind, then you can be like BRDs or BLM are with latent rings, don't ask for a cure till you Role Reversal. Keep this up until puppet MP is at 0 and then the real fun starts.

Also apologies for my earlier post. It was a bit of a rant purely due to the incredible retardation SE throws in the direction of PUP most of the time. Nothing personal :3 Let's hope we can sort it out and get noticed.