Famitsu - Creating a Monster: Pandemonium Warden

Elmer the Pointy · 06-30-2009, 02:36 AM

A new interview came out today:

Famitsu - Creating a Monster: Pandemonium Warden

It gets a little more into the devs minds I think, though it's a little short. It was conducted by Suteki, who you may remember from a few of those Absolute Virtue strategy articles I've put up on JP Button in the past. (Actually, there's a new one this month I want to get up tonight) Anyway, he's had a lot of hands-on experience as an avid player of FFXI, so I think that really helped the questions in this interview. Enjoy!

Silenka · 06-30-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Now, I know what you are thinking. "Hey! There was an interview in April and he said 18 people could beat it! Look!" *copy, paste, rage* I went back and checked that interview, and the best I can say is that 18 people was probably meant as a bare minimum for a single team fighting Pandemonium Warden, since now we know it was their intention to have people cycling in and out and going back to town.

Quote:

However, Ito also laments the fact that Absolute Virtue is still considered unbeatable, recalling how he often hears complaints of it being impossible despite the adjustments made.

You mean the adjustments they made against the players? "Oh my god they're killing it let's nerf the weapon/job ability they're using, that'll show them!"

Thanks for the interview Elmer... but this one just makes me mad. :<

[edit] Oh dear just noticed this one:

Quote:

As for the future of ridiculously hard adventurer-obliterating super mobs, there are, in fact, plans to include a comparable boss within the Wings of the Goddess expansion.

I don't know what to say...

Spira · 06-30-2009, 03:09 AM

wasnt expecting them not to add comparable NMs in WotG.. so i cant wait!

i think Apathy already solved the trick they mention about astral flows.. thats probably the 1 rdm diaga thing...

Drex · 06-30-2009, 03:18 AM

So now they basically admit the 18 hour PW fight was more or less what they intended, and that 18 people was a bullshit figure from the start

At least we're on the same page here I guess!

Starr · 06-30-2009, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Even with Suteki's success, he still admits that Astral Flow can easily wipe an entire alliance with ease. To combat this, Ito reveals that there is somewhat of a delay between when Pandemonium Warden uses Astral Flow and when the ability goes off. "If you can do something about those avatars that appear," Ito says, "you just might be able to save yourselves." He also adds, with a chuckle, that this does not mean you will come out unscathed.

SCH/DRK stunga?

BRP · 06-30-2009, 03:26 AM

There has always been an "undefeatable" boss towards the end of every expansion so we can probably expect at least one per expansion. I just have to wonder how they test these. Apparently they do.

Pikarya · 06-30-2009, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRP

I just have to wonder how they test these. Apparently we do.

We are the Beta test team.

Starr · 06-30-2009, 03:32 AM

Every PLD has Aegis and every BRD has GHorn no doubt.

Spira · 06-30-2009, 03:33 AM

yup.. each expansion has something of a basic HNM hierarchy.
the 3 HNMs is one of them, whereas the popped NM system with 1 HNM at the very top of the system is another..

this makes Sky NMs, Sea NMs and Zeni NMs system equivalents across the first 3 expansions thus far.
a part of me is happy that they're putting Kirin on an equivalent standard as Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden, giving credence to one of my theories on the system designs put into place in the game.. altho to be honest, the later NMs difficulties are vastly different than those from the Zilart era..

this gives me hope that we will finally see the 2nd WotG HNM soon...

i also liked how they wanted to add back some FF-homage/mythology reference with Asura... mobs with some form of 'flavor-text/backgrounds' are much more interesting

TheStig · 06-30-2009, 03:34 AM

Quote:

When testing new monsters, such as Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden, Ito says they use the equipment appropriate for the task. Since AV and PW are the strongest class of monsters in the game, they test it out with the strongest equipment possible. Paladins will wear Aegis, for example.

Secret is obviously each BLM/SMN should be wearing Claustrums when nuking/bloodpacting. You've all been doing it wrong!!!

Yugl · 06-30-2009, 03:37 AM

"I got 99 ideas for an NM, but a bitch ain't one of em'"?

Quote:

As for the future of ridiculously hard adventurer-obliterating super mobs, there are, in fact, plans to include a comparable boss within the Wings of the Goddess expansion. Unfortunately, the developers are unable to give out any more details at this time.

Good news everyone! New avatars are coming!

Starr · 06-30-2009, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spira

this gives me hope that we will finally see the 2nd WotG HNM soon...

Some people would Argue Ixion and Worm are the first and second and we're waiting for the third, which would also most likely be a zone traveller. Do not want.

Spira · 06-30-2009, 04:04 AM

i would say Sandworm doesnt count as a HNM, but is more of a new style of battlefield event...

there are imo a number of qualifiers for HNMs, one of the most important being "global" attacks (attacks that hit everyone around, regardless of whether they had prior hate. in the open game environment, only HNMs are able to do this now.)

and the whole fight from start to finish is an open-area battle (as in, non-BC, non-instanced, non-flagged, non-Confrontation), which Dark Ixion and all prior "3 HNMs" mobs fit the bill for.

each expansion's 3 HNMs also follow general internal themes...

with Zilart HNMs, Aspidochelone, King Behemoth and Nidhogg are referred to as Kings because they are all HQ lottery spawns of NMs.

CoP is more obvious, with all 3 HNMs being Wyrms, and sharing identical spawn timers.

ToA's Khim, Hydra and Cerb all hail from Greek mythology, and if you consider the mythological relevance of Khimaira, are fiends that are known to have multiple heads. they also share the spawn timer patterns.

With WotG, its too early to find any trend with HNMs, cos in my opinion theres still only 1, and thats not enough to really establish a trend..
but there are some things that can potentially be picked up from Dark Ixion..
20-24hr window
zone roaming
appearance influenced by Campaign
required item of engagement (Stygian Ash)
no HP bar until you break horn
Already exists in FF lore (FFX, FFXII).

thetruepandagod · 06-30-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStig

Secret is obviously each BLM/SMN should be wearing Claustrums when nuking/bloodpacting. You've all been doing it wrong!!!

So does this mean that at the time of the AV video they actually though earth staff and M bodies were the best gear in the game?

Sho · 06-30-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Suteki explains that with 32 members, he was able to take down PW, although it took his team four tries to accomplish this. Surprised, Sase reveals that he originally anticipated players would need between 36-54 people. The spawn point of Pandemonium Warden was also intentionally placed close to town, so while one team fends off the monster, another team can return to Whitegate and change jobs or get supplies as the battle dictates. Now, I know what you are thinking.

So that's why ATNM Test Goblin is in Wajoam and popped by trading the key. That would have been a cool ass concept, like that treant event way back in the day. Can also see why they moved it.

Gtype954 · 06-30-2009, 07:05 AM

Aegis was around during AV's creation I believe. I call bullshit if they survived AV's magic madness with a damn HQ earth staff. They also fought his regen with a staff pld and a no staff skill rdm. The drg did not even have mezraq/v-fork at that time. Sam seems to have hagun though and drk with the nice scythe relic.

An interesting read about PW. Would have been fun if they kept him on ATNM test pop area and zoning in whitegate to get foods and change jobs sounds fun. Even getting astral flowed and home pointing (to whitegate) while a mule holds him from depopping sounds cool. I also believe PW did not regen his HP while yellow unclaimed in his last form. 54 people for a mob that drops a little bit of stuff and took over 18 hrs to kill is a damn shame though. They should be ashamed of themself for even thinking making a monster like that.

I also think sandworm counts as an HNM. He has an HQ version that pops once a week and has exclusive HNM drops that are also determined by treasure hunter and not a coffer. (so its not a battlefield bcnm type thing imo).

It would make sense to add the last and 3rd HNM in the icelands where everything was chaos during the crystal war.

And to deride SE some more... Their drg did not even use angon, at least in the parts we were shown nor did he have a wyvern out...

Now we have magus roll, reprisal, wild card, saline coat and blue group 2 merits. we got our merit group 2 raised from 3 to 5 max. whm has all these new spells. we have sch job as well. Things are must more easier now then they ever were. They killed AV with "gimp" gear but good players cannot kill him with the new elite gear?

Hyan · 06-30-2009, 07:57 AM

DAISUKE SASEEEEE

Expect epic fail if he's around for X I V

Starr · 06-30-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gtype954

I also think sandworm counts as an HNM. He has an HQ version that pops once a week

I thought it could be Lambton in succession or with very few days in between? At least not 4+ is possible HQ up to day 9 like Kings.

TheStig · 06-30-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruepandagod

So does this mean that at the time of the AV video they actually though earth staff and M bodies were the best gear in the game?

Hmm, obviously DEF/VIT is working as intended on the test server so they all took minimal damage.

infact i dunno anymore =(

Virtuous Saint · 06-30-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spira

wasnt expecting them not to add comparable NMs in WotG.. so i cant wait!

i think Apathy already solved the trick they mention about astral flows.. thats probably the 1 rdm diaga thing...

Ya, most likely what they meant by that. I personally can't wait for the next one. We have PW down... and hopefully AV soon, but it is considerably harder.

Starr · 06-30-2009, 08:31 AM

AV will never be able to be killed constantly will it? Due to changing 2hours and bad luck with which/order?

Mizango · 06-30-2009, 10:00 AM

Wow, that's an interesting read and quite odd to see the Dev. team so candid about things they refused to even acknowledge in the past.

Quote:

As for the future of ridiculously hard adventurer-obliterating super mobs, there are, in fact, plans to include a comparable boss within the Wings of the Goddess expansion.

............

Anyway, thanks for sharing this information Elmer. As always, you rock.

Gtype954 · 06-30-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizango

Wow, that's an interesting read and quite odd to see the Dev. team so candid about things they refused to even acknowledge in the past.

............

Anyway, thanks for sharing this information Elmer. As always, you rock.

Linkshells like apathy must be excited to hear these news. We heard this news already from another SE person, but now we heard it again from this SE guy.

If the monster is hard to the level of PW, then that is good. Good linkshells and RPG players deserve to push their limits greater and greater.
PW is the perfect amount of difficulty and helps make lots of gil for people who want to live the dream or getting a relic weapon or new cool gear.
AV on the other hand, is too difficult and needs his meteor toned down just a little bit or release barlight and more light resistant gear.

Qeomash · 06-30-2009, 11:53 AM

Bah, Asura would have been a better choice for a final boss. But, I'd bet they didn't want to create a unique model for a fight that few would even participate in. So, they just recolored the chair guy.

Demosthenes11 · 06-30-2009, 12:03 PM

lmfao @ 36-54 people

seriously, fuck off SE your bullshit stinks

ronin sparthos · 06-30-2009, 12:08 PM

36-54 people and it only drops 4 unique items.

Classic SE devs, FFXIV will be proud.

Spira · 06-30-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeomash

Bah, Asura would have been a better choice for a final boss. But, I'd bet they didn't want to create a unique model for a fight that few would even participate in. So, they just recolored the chair guy.

seeing as how Asura also sits on a floating chair in classic FF... i'd say it woulda been the same model anyway.. maybe different colors

TheStig · 06-30-2009, 01:42 PM

I want this one to be the next HNM:

Attacks fast, can "rage" or change forms using its SSJ move (Andrenaline?), attacks everyone (Grand Slash), need to break armor/hat to see HP, etc

I always loved this series of monsters. FFX's one had them looking very high tech which I feel doesn't fit well into FFXI's world, so I picked up 7's image instead.

Starr · 06-30-2009, 01:44 PM

FF8 ones looked better

ronin sparthos · 06-30-2009, 02:18 PM

Iron Giants should be normal mobs :/

06-30-2009, 02:36 AM	#1
Elmer the Pointy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Shizuoka Posts: 1,364 FFXI Server: Gilgamesh	Famitsu - Creating a Monster: Pandemonium Warden A new interview came out today: Famitsu - Creating a Monster: Pandemonium Warden It gets a little more into the devs minds I think, though it's a little short. It was conducted by Suteki, who you may remember from a few of those Absolute Virtue strategy articles I've put up on JP Button in the past. (Actually, there's a new one this month I want to get up tonight) Anyway, he's had a lot of hands-on experience as an avid player of FFXI, so I think that really helped the questions in this interview. Enjoy!

06-30-2009, 04:04 AM	#13
Spira Relic Shield Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,744 FFXI Server: Ragnarok	i would say Sandworm doesnt count as a HNM, but is more of a new style of battlefield event... there are imo a number of qualifiers for HNMs, one of the most important being "global" attacks (attacks that hit everyone around, regardless of whether they had prior hate. in the open game environment, only HNMs are able to do this now.) and the whole fight from start to finish is an open-area battle (as in, non-BC, non-instanced, non-flagged, non-Confrontation), which Dark Ixion and all prior "3 HNMs" mobs fit the bill for. each expansion's 3 HNMs also follow general internal themes... with Zilart HNMs, Aspidochelone, King Behemoth and Nidhogg are referred to as Kings because they are all HQ lottery spawns of NMs. CoP is more obvious, with all 3 HNMs being Wyrms, and sharing identical spawn timers. ToA's Khim, Hydra and Cerb all hail from Greek mythology, and if you consider the mythological relevance of Khimaira, are fiends that are known to have multiple heads. they also share the spawn timer patterns. With WotG, its too early to find any trend with HNMs, cos in my opinion theres still only 1, and thats not enough to really establish a trend.. but there are some things that can potentially be picked up from Dark Ixion.. 20-24hr window zone roaming appearance influenced by Campaign required item of engagement (Stygian Ash) no HP bar until you break horn Already exists in FF lore (FFX, FFXII). Last edited by Spira; 06-30-2009 at 04:06 AM.

06-30-2009, 07:05 AM	#16
Gtype954 Relic Weapons Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 350	Aegis was around during AV's creation I believe. I call bullshit if they survived AV's magic madness with a damn HQ earth staff. They also fought his regen with a staff pld and a no staff skill rdm. The drg did not even have mezraq/v-fork at that time. Sam seems to have hagun though and drk with the nice scythe relic. An interesting read about PW. Would have been fun if they kept him on ATNM test pop area and zoning in whitegate to get foods and change jobs sounds fun. Even getting astral flowed and home pointing (to whitegate) while a mule holds him from depopping sounds cool. I also believe PW did not regen his HP while yellow unclaimed in his last form. 54 people for a mob that drops a little bit of stuff and took over 18 hrs to kill is a damn shame though. They should be ashamed of themself for even thinking making a monster like that. I also think sandworm counts as an HNM. He has an HQ version that pops once a week and has exclusive HNM drops that are also determined by treasure hunter and not a coffer. (so its not a battlefield bcnm type thing imo). It would make sense to add the last and 3rd HNM in the icelands where everything was chaos during the crystal war. And to deride SE some more... Their drg did not even use angon, at least in the parts we were shown nor did he have a wyvern out... Now we have magus roll, reprisal, wild card, saline coat and blue group 2 merits. we got our merit group 2 raised from 3 to 5 max. whm has all these new spells. we have sch job as well. Things are must more easier now then they ever were. They killed AV with "gimp" gear but good players cannot kill him with the new elite gear? Last edited by Gtype954; 06-30-2009 at 10:14 AM.

06-30-2009, 03:09 AM	#3
Spira Relic Shield Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,744 FFXI Server: Ragnarok	wasnt expecting them not to add comparable NMs in WotG.. so i cant wait! i think Apathy already solved the trick they mention about astral flows.. thats probably the 1 rdm diaga thing...

06-30-2009, 03:18 AM	#4
Drex Bagel Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,421 FFXI Server: Pandemonium	So now they basically admit the 18 hour PW fight was more or less what they intended, and that 18 people was a bullshit figure from the start At least we're on the same page here I guess!

06-30-2009, 03:26 AM	#6
BRP Ridill Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Galápagos Islands Posts: 13,688 FFXI Server: Midgardsormr	There has always been an "undefeatable" boss towards the end of every expansion so we can probably expect at least one per expansion. I just have to wonder how they test these. Apparently they do.

06-30-2009, 03:32 AM	#8
Starr Banned. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Engrand, Phoenix server HI NEO Posts: 4,584 FFXI Server: Phoenix WoW Realm: Aegwynn	Every PLD has Aegis and every BRD has GHorn no doubt.

06-30-2009, 03:33 AM	#9
Spira Relic Shield Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,744 FFXI Server: Ragnarok	yup.. each expansion has something of a basic HNM hierarchy. the 3 HNMs is one of them, whereas the popped NM system with 1 HNM at the very top of the system is another.. this makes Sky NMs, Sea NMs and Zeni NMs system equivalents across the first 3 expansions thus far. a part of me is happy that they're putting Kirin on an equivalent standard as Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden, giving credence to one of my theories on the system designs put into place in the game.. altho to be honest, the later NMs difficulties are vastly different than those from the Zilart era.. this gives me hope that we will finally see the 2nd WotG HNM soon... i also liked how they wanted to add back some FF-homage/mythology reference with Asura... mobs with some form of 'flavor-text/backgrounds' are much more interesting

06-30-2009, 07:57 AM	#17
Hyan Bagel Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: finland Posts: 1,281 FFXI Server: Fairy	DAISUKE SASEEEEE Expect epic fail if he's around for X I V

06-30-2009, 08:31 AM	#21
Starr Banned. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Engrand, Phoenix server HI NEO Posts: 4,584 FFXI Server: Phoenix WoW Realm: Aegwynn	AV will never be able to be killed constantly will it? Due to changing 2hours and bad luck with which/order?

06-30-2009, 11:53 AM	#24
Qeomash Relic Weapons Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 316 FFXI Server: Pandemonium WoW Realm: Aegwynn	Bah, Asura would have been a better choice for a final boss. But, I'd bet they didn't want to create a unique model for a fight that few would even participate in. So, they just recolored the chair guy.

06-30-2009, 12:03 PM	#25
Demosthenes11 Sandworm Swallows Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mexifornia Posts: 7,336 FFXI Server: Hades	lmfao @ 36-54 people seriously, fuck off SE your bullshit stinks

06-30-2009, 12:08 PM	#26
ronin sparthos Chram Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,892	36-54 people and it only drops 4 unique items. Classic SE devs, FFXIV will be proud.

06-30-2009, 01:42 PM	#28
TheStig E. Body Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK - London Posts: 2,097	I want this one to be the next HNM: Attacks fast, can "rage" or change forms using its SSJ move (Andrenaline?), attacks everyone (Grand Slash), need to break armor/hat to see HP, etc I always loved this series of monsters. FFX's one had them looking very high tech which I feel doesn't fit well into FFXI's world, so I picked up 7's image instead.

06-30-2009, 01:44 PM	#29
Starr Banned. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Engrand, Phoenix server HI NEO Posts: 4,584 FFXI Server: Phoenix WoW Realm: Aegwynn	FF8 ones looked better

06-30-2009, 02:18 PM	#30
ronin sparthos Chram Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,892	Iron Giants should be normal mobs :/

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