Hand-to-Hand No Weapon DMG

[Kroot]

I was reading the Wiki and noticed the dispute over weather H2H base dmg is skill/10 +3 or skill/9 +3 so I did some test on lvl 1 mobs.

notes: PUP/THF naked 231 H2H skill assuming all functions are floored

231/10 = 23.1 23+3 = 26 dmg d1
231/9 = 25.6 25+3 = 28 dmg d2

fSTR is capped so fSTR = Weapon Rank +8 = 0 + 8 = 8

D1 = d1 + fSTR = 26 + 8 = 34
D2 = d2 + fSTR = 28 + 8 = 36

max pDIF = 3 because of crit

Dmg1 = D1 * pDIF = 34 * 3 = 102
Dmg2 = D2 * pDIF = 36 * 3 = 108


when I actually tested it I got this

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/asowa42/Crit.png

so using these number and figuring out d3 from there

113 / 3 = D3 = 37.67 "problem since this is not a multiple of 3"
38 - 8 = d3 = 30

I don't understand why this is so large. I tried to search for original h2h research but didn't find it. I did prob 50 crit hits and could not get over 113.
I also put on hades sainti and got max crits that matched d3 if I factored in weapon rank of 2 and dmg of 18 on weapon

[ismarc]

pDif has a cap of 3.15 after the 2H update, nerf, then update (maybe another nerf in here, too?)

Taking your numbers,
34*3.15 = 107.1
36*3.15 = 113.4

So we have non-definitive results. Either the formula is h2h skill/10 + 3 or no weapon equipped counts as a rank 2 weapon.

[Max™]

Are 1h weapons capped at 3.15 too?

I thought that was a change just to 2hed?

[LD]

3.15 would explain this pretty easily, but best get the math people on this.
It IS possible they ninja'd it, or maybe a glitch...

[ismarc]

According to http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53000, 3.15 is the cap for 1H and lines up with the math perfectly. I'm also willing to bet that h2h is rank 2 weapon whether you have a weapon equipped or not, but I lack the free time to fully prove it.

[VZX]

I think RealityBytes from Alla once said the actual change was
Base Damage * old_pDIF * 1.00~1.05

But feel free to believe/not to believe/disagree/agree with him. I have yet to proof it either (how anyway?)

[ismarc]

I think RealityBytes from Alla once said the actual change was
Base Damage * old_pDIF * 1.00~1.05

But feel free to believe/not to believe/disagree/agree with him. I have yet to proof it either (how anyway?)

old pDIF = 3.0
3.0 * 1.05 = 3.15

So ya, same end-result since we're talking about max possible crit damage to determine the damage rating of h2h.

[Chupunpupun]

So skill/9 is right? That means the last tier is 298 and not 290. Means, you gotta 8/8 + faith torque to reach it;;

[Thorny]

I don't really think you can conclusively say skill/9 is correct, especially when the accepted formula is skill/x + y, it sort of needs more tests with different h2h values and everything else remaining constant to prove exactly what it is. That's certainly a possibility though, and would make faith torque MUCH more appealing to good mnks.

[Kroot]

also some say it is skill * .11 (1/9 rounded to 2 digits) which is different then skill/9 I am currently trying to find someone who has 299 h2h skill or similar so this can be looked at more precisely
(75mnk with full merits and faith)

299 * .11 = 32.89 floored = 32
299 / 9 = 33.22 floored = 33

using a max pDIF of 3.15 and the above numbers the max crits should be
[S*.11] floor(135.45)= 135
[ S/9 ] floor(138.6) = 138


I doubt weapon rank for no weapon would be 2, a value of 0 or 1 is more reasonable but reason is not proof

[Max™]

Couldn't you test wRank for no weapon by putting on enough Str to get dStr of 28+, recording damage, then upping it 4~8 Str and see if you get any boost from fStr or not?

Or is the cap for hth not wRank +8?

[Chupunpupun]

also some say it is skill * .11 (1/9 rounded to 2 digits) which is different then skill/9 I am currently trying to find someone who has 299 h2h skill or similar so this can be looked at more precisely
(75mnk with full merits and faith)

299 * .11 = 32.89 floored = 32
299 / 9 = 33.22 floored = 33

using a max pDIF of 3.15 and the above numbers the max crits should be
[S*.11] floor(135.45)= 135
[ S/9 ] floor(138.6) = 138


I doubt weapon rank for no weapon would be 2, a value of 0 or 1 is more reasonable but reason is not proof

Ok, I asked a JP friend in my LS to check what the JP says about H2H DMG calculations and she found out they have a calculator for it (didn't ask for link since it's probably in JP). She found that JP uses Skill * .11 + 3 + weapon damage.

Tiers are 273 > 282 > 291 > 300

Conclusion:

4/4 h2h + torque will get you to the last tier. Which is a relieve for me cause I can't 8/8 h2h since I'm a fully merited ridill war.

[Kroot]

I finally found a Cestus Belt on AH and tested 236 skill pup/mnk and was only able to crit for 113 which confirms the skill * .11 formula. if it was skill/9 my max crit would be 116

[eva00r]

does 1.05 * old PDIF apply to two handed weapon also ?

[Amele]

does 1.05 * old PDIF apply to two handed weapon also ?

we don't know if it applies to anything at all >.>

the pdif_cap under crit is approximately 3.15 for 2h as well though, yes.