Pankration - some noob questions

[Waef]

I know there's the chance that I'll get flamed for asking questions that should be obvious, but I haven't played since before Pankration came out and I would really like to try it. I read a lot of the threads around here but there a still a few things I'm uncertain on.

1. The ability listed on the plate isn't necessarily the same as the innate?
2. Is there any difference between different monsters of the same family? (Besides appearance)
3. Does monster type really make a huge difference in how well a beast performs?
4. How well do buffalo fare? Chigoes (I hear a lot of talk about them)? Wyverns? Apkallu (also hear a lot of talk about them)? Wamoura?
5. I hear about people using defensive feral abilities a lot - what tends to do better, a pure defensive monster, pure offensive, or a balance of both?
6. Is there anywhere I can look that shows max FP of all monster types?
7. You don't get aggro from snapshotting a monster, correct?

Sorry for the dumb questions >.< it was just stuff I didn't really see or wasn't certain about while reading. Also, I'm looking at wiki as we speak. Thanks in advance for answers and I'll probably ask more later.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Originally Posted by Waef

I know there's the chance that I'll get flamed for asking questions that should be obvious, but I haven't played since before Pankration came out and I would really like to try it. I read a lot of the threads around here but there a still a few things I'm uncertain on.

1. The ability listed on the plate isn't necessarily the same as the innate?
2. Is there any difference between different monsters of the same family? (Besides appearance)
3. Does monster type really make a huge difference in how well a beast performs?
4. How well do buffalo fare? Chigoes (I hear a lot of talk about them)? Wyverns? Apkallu (also hear a lot of talk about them)? Wamoura?
5. I hear about people using defensive feral abilities a lot - what tends to do better, a pure defensive monster, pure offensive, or a balance of both?
6. Is there anywhere I can look that shows max FP of all monster types?
7. You don't get aggro from snapshotting a monster, correct?

Sorry for the dumb questions >.< it was just stuff I didn't really see or wasn't certain about while reading. Also, I'm looking at wiki as we speak. Thanks in advance for answers and I'll probably ask more later.

1. Not necessarily, but often it is. Nothing is guaranteed, could have no innate, could have 2.
2. What jobs they start as, otherwise it seems not.
3. Yes yes yes yes yes
4. Buffalo suck. Chigoes either are the most pathetic or the most awesomest. Wyverns are pretty good but low FP. Apkallu rock. Wamoura are pretty good.
5. Depends on how you build your mob.
6. Maybe otherwiki
7. Nope, dont even need claim on it.

[Waef]

Thank you. At the risk of using a possibly overused mob, why can chigoes be either "the best or the worst"? Also I'm guessing to make a "good" monster you need to snap hundreds of monsters until you get one with 2 good innates?

(Btw innate means it doesn't cost FP to get those abilities, correct?)

Edit: 1 more question, it's possible to have more than 1 Pankration monster at a time right? (As it's based on the soul reflector?)

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Originally Posted by Waef

Thank you. At the risk of using a possibly overused mob, why can chigoes be either "the best or the worst"? Also I'm guessing to make a "good" monster you need to snap hundreds of monsters until you get one with 2 good innates?

(Btw innate means it doesn't cost FP to get those abilities, correct?)

Edit: 1 more question, it's possible to have more than 1 Pankration monster at a time right? (As it's based on the soul reflector?)

Chigoes have pitiful HP but attack rediculously fast and have a lot of FP. Toss on attack speed+ and/or an enspell and you have something that rips enemies to shreds.

Innates dont cost FP, but its very hard to get the one you want

You can have multiple monsters but only one active at a time. You trade a soul reflector to a NPC to turn it into an Official Reflector. You use your official reflector to enter matches. You can only have one official reflector at a time. You trade the official back to the NPC to turn it into a normal soul reflector.

[Yomjo]

My friend has a Chigoe that routinely destroys anything within 5 levels of it and occasionally pulls out wins versus stuff he has no business fighting.

[Priran]

1. The ability listed on the plate isn't necessarily the same as the innate?

It seems to vary family to family, but in general, I wouldn't bet on a soul plate keeping a desirable innate when you turn it into a reflector.

2. Is there any difference between different monsters of the same family? (Besides appearance)

Some start with different mains, and some have free subjobs.

3. Does monster type really make a huge difference in how well a beast performs?

Absolutely.

4. How well do buffalo fare? Chigoes (I hear a lot of talk about them)? Wyverns? Apkallu (also hear a lot of talk about them)? Wamoura?

Buffalo blow. Chigoes are good but are also the mob most subject to fucked-up luck. My wyvern is really good; 70 FP at 50 is enough for me. Apkallu are very good if you have hours to spend getting the right innates. I haven't really seen any high-level Wamoura.

Mimics, rabbits, and mandies are also surprisingly good.

5. I hear about people using defensive feral abilities a lot - what tends to do better, a pure defensive monster, pure offensive, or a balance of both?

A lot of the offensive skills blow or cost way too much for what they do. My mob has a couple offensive skills but is mainly defensive.

6. Is there anywhere I can look that shows max FP of all monster types?

Nope

7. You don't get aggro from snapshotting a monster, correct?

The act of taking their picture doesn't aggro them, but you can't have sneak or invis up when you try. Being directly in front of a mob provides the best chance of making a plate, though, so you may want to go on a job that can Sleep.

[Thistle]

Originally Posted by Priran

It seems to vary family to family, but in general, I wouldn't bet on a soul plate keeping a desirable innate when you turn it into a reflector.

Very oddly, some traits seem to have a better chance at becoming an innate than others. (Wish I had my notes with me, but I'm at work so I'll have to be a little vague here.) Last night I took 260 pictures of opo-opos (hoping for the attack speed bonus). Things like dex +25 and str +25 became innate a whole lot, like nine times out of ten. Things like attack and acc bonuses became innate maybe 50% of the time. And things like fire attack bonus and speed bonus rarely if ever became innate. (Speed never so far. Bah.)

Also, after 200 pictures of getting nothing I wanted, I decided to use HQ film on the last set of 60. Nothing but a waste of pit-bucks. I didn't even have a greater picture-taking success, let alone better abilities or success in them becoming innate. (I know others have said that as well, but I was frustrated and so figured I'd try that.)

[Khamsin]

Originally Posted by Yomjo

My friend has a Chigoe that routinely destroys anything within 5 levels of it and occasionally pulls out wins versus stuff he has no business fighting.

If he puts some sort of debilitating en-spell, like Petrifying Attack, on it, he could probably take things within 10 levels.

How does he survive long enough, btw? Blink, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Auto-Regen, WHM sub?

[Not Kuno]

Originally Posted by Khamsin

If he puts some sort of debilitating en-spell, like Petrifying Attack, on it, he could probably take things within 10 levels.

How does he survive long enough, btw? Blink, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Auto-Regen, WHM sub?

Bahamut had a chigoe champeon for a while. It had enpetrify and raped face with it. Also seemed to start with blink + stoneskin which held off the mob till petrify went off, it rarely got scratched. Petrify proced once a fight always, sometimes early and it wears off at the end but it goes off fairly often. Also seemed to attack super fucking fast which leads me to believe it had +attack speed or +triple attack or maybe just war with job traits? Dunno but it was really fast.

Didn't see how it lost though.

[Priran]

Originally Posted by Not Kuno

Also seemed to attack super fucking fast which leads me to believe it had +attack speed or +triple attack or maybe just war with job traits? Dunno but it was really fast.

Probably Speed Bonus plus Instant Haste.

Didn't see how it lost though.

Most of the strong chigoes I've seen died eventually to a combination of a lucky crit, WS, and/or sleep.

[Waef]

Thank you everyone for your advice so fair, I've thought up a few more questions

I've heard about Apkallu having innate attack speed bonus and max hp+15% at the same time, what kind of innates can Chigoes and mimics get? (Most interested in making either apkallu, chigoe, or mimic, although I'm leaning towards chigoe since it seems like it would be awesome to own people with a little thing like that XD)

Also, do crits and WSs 1shot chigoes?
Does everything come with an innate job automatically? Does it cost FP to set a main/subjob? Can you get a subjob innate in addition to 2 other innates? Will higher level monsters have a higher chance of granting better/more innates at once?

[Priran]

Originally Posted by Waef

Also, do crits and WSs 1shot chigoes?

No, but the damage from them usually will.

Does everything come with an innate job automatically? Does it cost FP to set a main/subjob? Can you get a subjob innate in addition to 2 other innates? Will higher level monsters have a higher chance of granting better/more innates at once?

I think everything always has a main job. Main/sub plates are 8 FP. Yes, I made a plate off of Mycophile with a BLM sub and 2 innates. I don't know about the last thing.

[Thufir]

I've been trying to level a decent chigoe and spent about 6 stacks taking pics of them in Caedarva Mire. They've all been THF, no sub. I've gotten no innate, plantoid killer, HP+15%, attack +15%, att bonus, Att speed +50, att speed bonus, viral attack, evasion bonus. Those are all the ones that come to mind, sometimes I got 2 at the same time, but always of the lower FP ones, with plantoid killer being most common.. It took me that many to finally get one with innate Attack Speed Bonus and i stuck with that. No snece in blowing through 10 more stacks trying to hope for speed bonus PLUS something else.

At level 15 my Chigoe has 79 FP and just under 200hp. They DONT get one-shot by crits or WS's, unless it reduces your HP to 0. Which it usually does. Seems the best way to level a chigoe is with a good En- spell or status to make use of the fast attacks (i get 3/4 attacks to 1 on me) with a stoneskin/phalank/dread spikes to keep you alive long enough to kill your opponent.

I'm still hoping for a En-petrify plate, eventually to kick in fairly regularly and lock down an opponent while i whittle away at it. Failing that, Enthunder.

[Waef]

Ah so the biggest downside to chigoes is ridiculously low HP? How much do they have at 50? Also what's better, Attack Speed Bonus or Attack Speed +50?

What type of enemies do you have to take pictures of to get:
Instant Stoneskin
Instant Haste
Instant Phalanx
Enpetrify
Elemental En's
Damage Reduction
Double Attack
Triple Attack
Critical Hit Rate
?

Also there seems to be no real difference between NQ and HQ camera besides recast time and number of uses? What about NQ/HQ plates?

How long on average do you have to wait nowadays to get into a match?

Edit: Last question for this round How exactly does temperment affect your monster?

[Priran]

Originally Posted by Waef

Ah so the biggest downside to chigoes is ridiculously low HP? How much do they have at 50? Also what's better, Attack Speed Bonus or Attack Speed +50?

Levelable skills are always better than non-levelable counterparts.

What type of enemies do you have to take pictures of to get:
Instant Stoneskin
Instant Haste
Instant Phalanx
Enpetrify
Elemental En's
Damage Reduction
Double Attack
Triple Attack
Critical Hit Rate

First three are off of various weapons (different weapons give different spells, otherwiki has a rough list). Enpetrify comes from Promyvion. Enspells come mainly from their respective elementals but mobs strongly affiliated with an element may give one too (i.e. clusters give enfire). Damage reduction comes from Uragnites and Adamantoise, neither of which can become reflectors. Double Attack I got from an orc warmachine, triple attack idk.

As far as how good those skills are, ditch Phalanx, Damage Taken, and DA/TA. Use Blink, which comes from Puks. And decide on either an enstatus or enspell, they don't stack. Attack or Accuracy wouldn't hurt either.

Also there seems to be no real difference between NQ and HQ camera besides recast time and number of uses? What about NQ/HQ plates?

Right on the cameras, and no one has noticed a difference with HQ plates; if anything, they seem to perform worse.

How long on average do you have to wait nowadays to get into a match?

Anywhere from 3 to 30 minutes for ABC and generally no lower than 45 minutes for Diablo. The lower end of the wait times are usually available from between the end of JP time and the start of NA time.

Last question for this round How exactly does temperment affect your monster?

Tame or Wild determines whether your mob will behave strategically or try to kill the enemy before the enemy kills it. Defensive or Aggressive determines which WS your mob will use if it has multiple; aggressive wyverns use Tail Crush, Deadly Drive, and Fang Rush while defensive wyverns use Wind Wall, Radiant Breath, Dread Shriek, and Dispelling Wind.

In other words, temperament is nearly irrelevant for chigoe, since you shouldn't be getting hit and you have no WS.

[Waef]

As far as how good those skills are, ditch Phalanx, Damage Taken, and DA/TA. Use Blink, which comes from Puks. And decide on either an enstatus or enspell, they don't stack. Attack or Accuracy wouldn't hurt either.

Hm, I can kind of understand Phalanx and Damage taken, but why ditch DA and TA? It seems like they would pair amazingly well with a chigoe's already fast attack speed. Also I'm guessing attack speed bonus is level-able and Attack bonus +50 never changes? Is Enpetrify from any monster in promies?

Oh that brings up the question, can you fight with promyvion monsters? Where do you get accuracy bonus and attack bonus?

[Priran]

Originally Posted by Waef

Hm, I can kind of understand Phalanx and Damage taken, but why ditch DA and TA? It seems like they would pair amazingly well with a chigoe's already fast attack speed.

They take monster amounts of FP, they don't stack well with each other, and they don't add up to a significant reduction in the time of the fight. I took DA off one of my mobs and never noticed the difference.

Also I'm guessing attack speed bonus is level-able and Attack bonus +50 never changes?

Correct.

Is Enpetrify from any monster in promies?

Weepers or gorgers or something? I think it's in the skill guide.

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=23597

On the negative side, it costs like a billion FP to set to it might not really be worth it.

Oh that brings up the question, can you fight with promyvion monsters?

No

Where do you get accuracy bonus and attack bonus?

check otherwiki

[rath]

Originally Posted by Priran

Levelable skills are always better than non-levelable counterparts.

Damage reduction comes from Uragnites and Adamantoise, neither of which can become reflectors. .

Sewer Syrup also gives damage reduction bonus, it can also become a reflector.

[Not Kuno]

Got damage reduction bonus from a crab (and got it as it's innate).

[Waef]

Any idea how much Enpetrify costs? What exactly is otherwiki..never heard of it..(unless you mean BGwiki?)

Also, say I wanted to get the blue chigoe from the Caedarva Mire Map quest as a monster, and I wanted it to have attack speed bonus and another thing as it's innate. Would simply taking pictures over and over of the same spawned one potentially give me that, or would best results come from popping it multiple times? The reason I ask is because someone was saying that the Apkallu they got with innate attack speed bonus usually came from the same few Apkallu and the others never gave it.

[Thufir]

If OtherWiki is correct, Enpetriry is 58 FP. En-statuses dont proc very hit like en-damges do though, I've heard as high as 1/10 at lvl 50.

You could keep taking pictures of the map quest chigoe until you ran out of plates, though drawing htat fight out to 12 minutes without winning or losing would be fun to watch. More likey you'd take a few pics and warp out before you died so you could go back and pop again. The HQ camera is perfect for those situations where you want to get the most pics in on the shortest time possible.

As for it possible having innate att speed bonus, with ZERO proof, i'm going to say it's possible. Ignorring SE logic that breaks stuff, Chigoes natually att fast and normal chigoes can have innate att speed bonus, so you should be able to. Getting plates is totally random from mobs so like drops you could get screwed for a long time or you could have awesome luck. I used 5 stacks trying to get Dread Spikes from Lamia Idolators and nothing. THen the 1st one on my 6th stack got it and i was outta there. Always the same mob too, the one closest to the staging point.

[Waef]

Originally Posted by Thufir

If OtherWiki is correct, Enpetriry is 58 FP. En-statuses dont proc very hit like en-damges do though, I've heard as high as 1/10 at lvl 50.

You could keep taking pictures of the map quest chigoe until you ran out of plates, though drawing htat fight out to 12 minutes without winning or losing would be fun to watch. More likey you'd take a few pics and warp out before you died so you could go back and pop again. The HQ camera is perfect for those situations where you want to get the most pics in on the shortest time possible.

As for it possible having innate att speed bonus, with ZERO proof, i'm going to say it's possible. Ignorring SE logic that breaks stuff, Chigoes natually att fast and normal chigoes can have innate att speed bonus, so you should be able to. Getting plates is totally random from mobs so like drops you could get screwed for a long time or you could have awesom