Lots of Ranger questions.

[ringthree]

Ok, I think I am pretty ok for understanding end-game melee, but Ranger choices continue to elude me.

I think I have the idea that I need two different sets of gear; one for XP/low accuracy events, and one for end-game events, but beyond that, I don't know how much ranged accuracy, ranged attack or STR I should have, and I don't know how to balance them.

1. How much accuracy do I need for XP and how much do I need for end-game events? Lots of trade offs like Head and Rings, have huge swings in accuracy, and I am not sure which to use and which aren't necessary.

2. How much of an accuracy penalty is there for Sidewinder?

3. Which is better? STR or Ranged Attack? What effects do they have on regular shots and on Sidewinder? If I am hitting for consistently the same amount of damage, which should I be increasing?

Any other advice would greatly be appreciated.

[zantes]

Originally Posted by ringthree

3. Which is better? STR or Ranged Attack? What effects do they have on regular shots and on Sidewinder? If I am hitting for consistently the same amount of damage, which should I be increasing?

Any other advice would greatly be appreciated.

Not sure about the other questions, but if you're consistantly hitting for the same amount, raise STR.

[Raylinn]

Originally Posted by zantes

Not sure about the other questions, but if you're consistantly hitting for the same amount, raise STR.

Have to disagree there. If you're hitting for the same number almost every shot, you're in the .9 to 1.1 cRation range which gives static pDif of 1. Up your attack and you'll see higher, more varied numbers.

[zantes]

Originally Posted by Raylinn

Have to disagree there. If you're hitting for the same number almost every shot, you're in the .9 to 1.1 cRation range which gives static pDif of 1. Up your attack and you'll see higher, more varied numbers.

I was pretty sure that the general rule is attack increases the average damage you do and STR increases the maximum damage you do.

[Tavo]

1. On Greater Colibri you only need 407 acc to cap which is very easy for a rng to get.

2. Couldn't tell ya never really had racc issues unless i was over camping

3. If your hitting consistently for the same damage shot for shot that means you need more STR gear. Ratck has a cap and STR is the only way to make that cap higher basiclly what the above poster said. On sidewinder i generally load up on racc then take off and add str to see where i get the best results.

Another person may be able to explain this more thoroughly.

[Seid]

Originally Posted by ringthree

Ok, I think I am pretty ok for understanding end-game melee, but Ranger choices continue to elude me.

I think I have the idea that I need two different sets of gear; one for XP/low accuracy events, and one for end-game events, but beyond that, I don't know how much ranged accuracy, ranged attack or STR I should have, and I don't know how to balance them.

1. How much accuracy do I need for XP and how much do I need for end-game events? Lots of trade offs like Head and Rings, have huge swings in accuracy, and I am not sure which to use and which aren't necessary.

2. How much of an accuracy penalty is there for Sidewinder?

3. Which is better? STR or Ranged Attack? What effects do they have on regular shots and on Sidewinder? If I am hitting for consistently the same amount of damage, which should I be increasing?

Any other advice would greatly be appreciated.

Kinda bored at work, so maybe some of this helps, maybe not, if not, can just ignore... Just my opinons here...

1. If you are hunting birds, then not as much as mamools/HNMs, but it cant be ignored (obvious i know)... i think something like O-hat/Acc Ring/PCC to go with native acc is decent (assuming using Vulcan and merits)... can always go with a second acc ring in place of Rajas if you need (or unless Rajas is breaking a tp/build tier). Now I imagine some people will say that using O-hat and PCC are stupid or maybe using acc rings are, but the difference in a few points of damage vs a full miss with a much larger delay attack is the bigger issue. You dont get the bonus of a 2-h weapon and you dont get a benefit from Haste (spell/song etc) while shooting... so not missing is even more important imo. As far as HNMs, its even more important to have an accuracy focus since you will want to eat meat in all situations save the most extreme cases. Meat makes up for alot of the dmg you lose by using more acc. (so do berserk/minuet/chaos)

2. HUGE! That isnt to say you will miss everyone of them, but it is wildly inaccurate and frustrating at times. One of the biggest bonuses RNGs got was the buff to Arching Arrow (Heavy Shot)... much more accurate, can crit/sc and much nicer DMG than before... it is a very good alternative and cant put out some really good numbers on bigger mobs while remaining relatively consistent. Sidewinder is king of XP, but on bigger things its acc issues come to the front and are glaring. Some might say "I never miss a Sidewinder" and this isnt true... you will miss, but you might land one for big numbers... but maybe miss 3 others (something JoL for instance). In merits (birds) spam the winder like mad, destroy them with a smile on your face and hope you have a nice barrage backup (meditate) for when you miss one at an inopportune time to keep a chain or something. Having said that, if you are using it on say Ixion, not the most evasive mob but not a colibri, then you can easily balance some extra acc and it is noticable with how many Sidewinders land. (obvisouly sushi makes them land alot more)

3. I personally (no numbers) have always enjoyed the boost I get from ranged attack with STR being slightly secondary and AGI 3rd for mods (acc has to rank up there of course). One of the biggest debates you will find is Seiryu's Kote vs CFG for Sidewinder... this isnt counting Skadi, just saying this debate goes on alot. I personally think S Kote performs better between the two. Back to STR and R ATK... using meat, having berserk and songs/rolls helps with R Attack alot, but im not sure you will ever cap your R ATK, maybe someone with the numbers can give more info on that. I recomend using a gorget for WS for the bonus dmg and acc of PCC... very nice upgrade when you add in your Breeze gorget... Wyvern Helm is an old school standby, maybe something better now (new beastman hat?)... the biggest questions come down to things like... P Legs vs AF2, Triumph Earrings, Flame Ring/ToAU ring vs ACC Ring. In some cases i think its easier to decide like AF2 feet vs Rutters... not alot of things out there that give nice R ATK bonuses so you might take those where you can.


Hmm advise would be to not negelect accuracy, have serveral macro setups with varying degrees of acc in it for your TP and WS builds... dont be afraid to use Arching Arrow (Heavy Shot)... merit Snapshot to max first thing! Dont know if that was anything that helped or not...

Have a good one.

Seid

[Raylinn]

Have a bit more time to make a proper response now.

1. For merit level stuff other than lurkers, Full ratt gear is generally fine. You should be at about 390-410 racc with ratt gear that also gives racc/agi.
For big stuff I like to shoot for about +70-80 racc in gear, food, and songs.

2. I was planning to go over my parses, but the webserver I had them on seems to be down. I'll try to look at them later tonight and see if they shed any light on this.

3. STR and ratt are both valuable. Just like with melee attacks, they work in tandem to create your damage amount. They are multiplied together, so both will increase your general damage. The problem most rangers that talk to me is that they are stuck in the .9-1.1 cratio range and don't know why every shot does the same amount of damage. I tell them to load up on attack to get out of the rut it makes.
Adding str will up your damage almost regardless of how much you add because it is making the modification to your base damage, and because ranged attacks use fStr2 (takes half as much str to make a damage difference compared to melee).

[Seid]

Originally Posted by Raylinn

Have a bit more time to make a proper response now.

1. For merit level stuff other than lurkers, Full ratt gear is generally fine. You should be at about 390-410 racc with ratt gear that also gives racc/agi.
For big stuff I like to shoot for about +70-80 racc in gear, food, and songs.

2. I was planning to go over my parses, but the webserver I had them on seems to be down. I'll try to look at them later tonight and see if they shed any light on this.

3. STR and ratt are both valuable. Just like with melee attacks, they work in tandem to create your damage amount. They are multiplied together, so both will increase your general damage. The problem most rangers that talk to me is that they are stuck in the .9-1.1 cratio range and don't know why every shot does the same amount of damage. I tell them to load up on attack to get out of the rut it makes.
Adding str will up your damage almost regardless of how much you add because it is making the modification to your base damage, and because ranged attacks use fStr2 (takes half as much str to make a damage difference compared to melee).

Wasnt there a really nice graph floating around a couple of years back showing how Ranged Attack plateus and peaks on something like Kirin and how much you needed to have on mobs like him?

[ringthree]

Thanks for the advice. I have only one merit in RNG (Flashy Shot), because I have been focusing and use SAM and MNK a lot more. They are pretty much maxed out now, so I figured I needed something with more damage from a distance. I currently have no merits in Archery, but I plan on getting rid of my Katana merits and move them over to Archery.

I don't think I have gotten a complete answer to the Ranged Attack vs. STR thing yet, and my testing has been pretty inconclusive. I generally use /NIN for RNG during events, so I haven't been too worried about Store TP, but I could see using it for XP so I will look into that.

For /NIN these are my current sets:
TP:

WS:


In the near future I should be able to have this:
TP:

WS:

[Jiyo]

If you have full Archery merits, and Hope torque, you can get away with +20~40 R.Acc on Birds, and have the rest of your gear focus on STR/R.ATT. I've never partied on Rng at Mamools, but I'd assume you would want to be closer to 40+ R.Acc to make up for the Thf/Nin mobs and their Eva+ move.

STR vs R.Att. Almost every new Rng or re-gearing Rng asks about this lol, and almost everyone has a different answer. Really, it depends on what mob you're fighting. The higher Def a Mob has, the less impact R.Att has (750Att/300Def vs 750Att/500Def). You'll see a higher number increasing your R.Att on Greater Colibri than you would on something like Ixion. Generally it's pretty easy to get high R.Att/pDIF values on Rng, especially if you have Dia on the mob you're fighting.

If you are lucky enough to have a Cor+Brd in your pt, you can get away with eating meat on HNM's using the right set up, more so for relic users. Most of the time though, you'll have to use sushi. However you'll be able to TP with minimal R.Acc gear, and only miss a handful of Sidewinders/Slugshots throughout the entire fight using a MAX damage set.

Edit: For your TP set you might want to look into getting a 6-hit set up with Skadi's Legs/Rajas/Brutal. You'll also want to get a Sea Gorget for SW/SS. The rest of your "Future" WS gear looks fine, as there are only a few upgrades from what you currently have (Skadi's Hands, Wyvern+1, etc etc). Also, there's no real reason you -have- to use dual axes even while /Nin. Perfectly fine using Staff+Grip in all situations (Except Rng Burn Pts, extra TP from axes helps a little when you pull hate).

[ringthree]

Originally Posted by Jiyo

If you have full Archery merits, and Hope torque, you can get away with +20~40 R.Acc on Birds, and have the rest of your gear focus on STR/R.ATT. I've never partied on Rng at Mamools, but I'd assume you would want to be closer to 40+ R.Acc to make up for the Thf/Nin mobs and their Eva+ move.

STR vs R.Att. Almost every new Rng or re-gearing Rng asks about this lol, and almost everyone has a different answer. Really, it depends on what mob you're fighting. The higher Def a Mob has, the less impact R.Att has (750Att/300Def vs 750Att/500Def). You'll see a higher number increasing your R.Att on Greater Colibri than you would on something like Ixion. Generally it's pretty easy to get high R.Att/pDIF values on Rng, especially if you have Dia on the mob you're fighting.

If you are lucky enough to have a Cor+Brd in your pt, you can get away with eating meat on HNM's using the right set up, more so for relic users. Most of the time though, you'll have to use sushi. However you'll be able to TP with minimal R.Acc gear, and only miss a handful of Sidewinders/Slugshots throughout the entire fight using a MAX damage set.

Edit: For your TP set you might want to look into getting a 6-hit set up with Skadi's Legs/Rajas/Brutal. You'll also want to get a Sea Gorget for SW/SS. The rest of your "Future" WS gear looks fine, as there are only a few upgrades from what you currently have (Skadi's Hands, Wyvern+1, etc etc). Also, there's no real reason you -have- to use dual axes even while /Nin. Perfectly fine using Staff+Grip in all situations (Except Rng Burn Pts, extra TP from axes helps a little when you pull hate).

Well, I sub NIN most of the time for events so Store TP wasn't that much of a concern but I will make sure to have a /SAM set up for XP. And I do have a Breeze Gorget already, just forgot about it. I don't and won't have full Archery merits (need them for SAM and MNK) and a Hope Torque is long term right now.

Oh, one specific spot I have been thinking about is feet. Should I use Skadi feet or Scout's Socks for more damage?

[Jiyo]

More damage for what? TP? WS? Again, it depends on the Mob and how much STR/R.ATT you already have. If you're capped pDIF, obviously go with the Skadi Feet (Zerg Situations). However, on Exp mobs Scouts COULD outperform Skadi. I just always TP in Scouts because I like -Enmity, and I WS in Marine M Boots for HNM, Scouts for EXP.

[Devolver]

Mini-Hijacking thread for a quick question.

I carry around both Kotes and Crimson hands for rng. but i seem to be getting more Sidewinder damage from the Crimson's instead of the Kotes

I would imagine Kotes would offer more SW damage with the AGI mod on them, so am i seeing the placebo effect, or is the added 10 rng attk really outweighing the AGI?

[Raen Ryong]

AGI is a terrible mod in terms of pure damage; only reason I'd use S Kote over CFG on SW most of the time is because it gives you a lot of racc for not a great comparatively damage deficit. That, or if ratk was capped.

[Silverbane]

For the most part your gear sems fine to me,i nstead of stressing over Strg and atk, you should address your meritable (dont know if this is a word ) attributes. Strg 5/5, Arch/Mar 8/8 and other important shit like snapshot rate etc. Then based on your wallet size/and ability to get the good gear money cant buy put focus on best gear for Ratk/Strg>Racc. What makes the difference after on damage or acc is simply eating the right food and your sub job, food can not be matched in my view in raising RNG Atk/acc cept by combo of BRD/COR. /NIN gives you the benefit of adding xtra acc, so you can probaly use atk food if not satisfied with damge./War brings the bang hardcore and if fully merited and hiting for good acc i would pile on more atk via food. If missing, put on the acc food. Also being a Rng you always have to remember to WS after tp is over at the least 150(200 up the best), im guilty of forgeting this and wiffing especialy on endgame mobs. I have used this in my experience as Rng and never have problem with damge output and acc for the most part.

[Silverbane]

Originally Posted by Raen Ryong

AGI is a terrible mod in terms of pure damage; only reason I'd use S Kote over CFG on SW most of the time is because it gives you a lot of racc for not a great comparatively damage deficit. That, or if ratk was capped.

Yea i never use S Kote on SW. All the maths i see saying its better realy makes me laugh. I can see this on SS and i would say the difference in damage is slight for me. My experience has CFG being top dog, yet to try Skadi hope to soon.

[Ahlah]

Leveling RNG now for Salvage and ZNM (only 26 ). I find RNG gears really confusing. I have some basic stuffs such as osode, crimson, kote and gorget. My main question is regarding Skadi set:

1) How's Skadi's curie compared to Kirin Osode in both TP and WS?
2) Does Skadi set bonus apply to range attack? What about critical hit merit?
3) I won't be able to merit archery or marksmanship skill and I don't do Dynamis anymore (i.e. no af2 feet and belt). What will be the optimal gear setup?

[megido]

1) How's Skadi's curie compared to Kirin Osode in both TP and WS?
> No comparison: Osode for most situations is the definitive body piece for a ranger.


2) Does Skadi set bonus apply to range attack? What about critical hit merit?
> Try equipping a thunder staff instead of a fire staff to see if it effects your critical hit rate. Keep in mind critical hit rate for ranged attack does not go up 1pDIF like melee attack. Hence you don't see many rangers going for a critical build.

3) I won't be able to merit archery or marksmanship skill and I don't do Dynamis anymore (i.e. no af2 feet and belt). What will be the optimal gear setup?
> Will vary on your gear selection and quality of your equipment. If you're lacking capped weapon merits you're losing roughly 16acc and ratt (roughly the difference of wearing no neckpiece and no crimson gauntlets).

[Silverbane]

Originally Posted by Ahlah

Leveling RNG now for Salvage and ZNM (only 26 ). I find RNG gears really confusing. I have some basic stuffs such as osode, crimson, kote and gorget. My main question is regarding Skadi set:

1) How's Skadi's curie compared to Kirin Osode in both TP and WS?
2) Does Skadi set bonus apply to range attack? What about critical hit merit?
3) I won't be able to merit archery or marksmanship skill and I don't do Dynamis anymore (i.e. no af2 feet and belt). What will be the optimal gear setup?

My opinion is that only Skadi hand is worth considering for RNG and maybe the feet for seeya speed. The rest is just ehhh

[Ahlah]

The impression I get is that most RNG don't emphasize alot of racc? Based on my experience with other melee jobs I will imagine Skadi's curie will be better for HNM scene but apparently this is not the case?

[Seid]

For as long back as the days of 2003 FFXI, RNGs dont like to admit how much they miss. There is a point of too much Acc, but with Sidewinder and attacks that arent effected by haste and have huge delays, Acc plays a very important roll. You can SW with 300 TP on stuff like JoL or higher up and miss. The key is finding the middle ground where your miss rate on normal attacks is acceptable and then another middle ground for your miss rate on SW. One of the better suggestions so far was holding TP to around 150 for Sidewinder, it is a noticeable help... in XP, not that big of a deal... HNMs, big deal. Also a suggestion, give /SAM+Vulcan a chance for all things you do, you will enjoy it. Get to a point where you are happy with your acc for tp/ws, then add in /WAR and things start to get crazy.

Also you will read where some people never use anything but meat... that is fine, but if you are on an evasive HNM, where you likely have a BRD/COR, dont be afraid to break out sushi if need. The acc means faster TP gain, more connected WSs and less ACC you have to wear in some slots... this isnt for all cases, just dont be afraid to use it if need. Remember, even with Velo Shot and Snapshot, the delay/reload delay is still there and isnt lowered by haste... so a miss hurts alot more than it does like a DRK, WAR or SAM.

And I prefer S Kote over CFG for WS but that is my preference.

[brisk]

My preference is Crimson + af2 feet for TP and S Kote + Skadi feet for WS. Think I'm trading off too much ratt for str.

[matix]

2) Does Skadi set bonus apply to range attack? What about critical hit merit?
> Try equipping a thunder staff instead of a fire staff to see if it effects your critical hit rate. Keep in mind critical hit rate for ranged attack does not go up 1pDIF like melee attack. Hence you don't see many rangers going for a critical build.

i thought you don't use thunder staff was cause the crit + applies only to the staff, not ranged shots, maybe im wrong D: also, it would have to be an insane bonus for it to warrant giving up the rest of your gear

1)The impression I get is that most RNG don't emphasize alot of racc? Based on my experience with other melee jobs I will imagine Skadi's curie will be better for HNM scene but apparently this is not the case?

well we've got all the 4 accuracy traits, and most racc gear offers heaps or r.acc +10/11/12 etc.., as for the skadi cuirie, i use it only for KC tp, and barrage, osode is the end all be all forever in terms of rng bodies, you need to bear in mind, the osode gives you 5 ratk on top of the 10str it has, and from the agi your also given 5racc

macros: i have like 5million macro sets, almost one for each endgame event/hnm/area/xp mobs, with tradeoffs for more str/r.atk/r.acc based on the buffs im usually given at certain events, like for events im positive i wont have brd/cor etc.. ;;