Casting Modifiers & Timing (Fastcast, Conserve MP, etc...)

[Guppy]

Looking at the new ACP augment options for mage, I had some questions regarding the timing of various kinds of casting modifiers.

Right now, I'm planning to use Redingote with WHM and BLM. Both jobs already have reasonably good body pieces, and Fastcast is one of the few really unique traits available as an Augment. The second stat would most likely end up being +M.Acc, allowing it to be used as a swap-in for things like Dark/Divine magic.

I've heard that Fastcast is evaluated at the start of spell casting, and was wondering if there were any other equipment traits like this (Cure Clogs w/Cure, Yigit Gomlek w/Songs?). From what I've heard, everything else gets evaluated at end of spellcast: Stats and Bonuses, +Haste, Conserve MP, -Enmity?

So, I'm wondering if the following series of macro swaps would work to combine bonuses:

/equip Body "Royal Redingote" <-Augmented with Fastcast
/equip Feet "Rostrum Pumps"
/ma "Cure V" <t> <-If I used <stpt> instead, would the pause for selection interfere?
/equip Body "Noble's Tunic"
/equip Feet "Blessed Pumps"

There's no /wait in there, and I would prefer to not stick one in if possible. I'm using the natural FFXI macros, so /wait would waste one of the 6x lines available.

Also, one of my issues with my Blessed Briault macro, for instance, is that I have a long /wait between use (to keep it on until end of barspell casting) and a switch-back to Noble's tunic. If I activate another macro before it finishes, it gets interrupted and I end up walking around in the Briault until I either remember to change, or hit my Cure macro (which has Noble's Tunic macro'd in).

My other option is just to go with M.acc + M.Attk on the Redingote, and use it as my main body piece on BLM (plus maybe as a nuking swap on WHM). Not that much of an improvement over Igqira Weskit, it's at least somewhat useful and gets me away from blinking each time I would swap for Fastcast.

[Asmoranomar]

/equip Body "Royal Redingote" <-Augmented with Fastcast
/equip Feet "Rostrum Pumps"
/ma "Cure V" <t> <-If I used <stpt> instead, would the pause for selection interfere?
/equip Body "Noble's Tunic"
/equip Feet "Blessed Pumps"

The way the macro system works, it will not pause for you to select your target and then continue to equip the rest of your gear. Instead, you'll get some ugly error, something like 'that action cannot be completed on selected target' or something dumb like that. Your macro will try to complete all actions at once.

Your best bet is to have a separate fast cast macro that you can use for all spells. Hit it first, then hit your action macros.

Or...use windower+spellcast

[Sylvrdragon]

Actually, what would happen with that specific macro is that it would do the gear change and bring up a cursor on you at about the same time. The problem is, even on a perfect connection, you are going to lag enough that your cursor will come up, you will will blink, and then lose target thereby canceling the macro entirely.

One way to work around that is to use <stal> which will bring up a purple arrow on your alliance member menu. The only issue I have with it is that you can't use the F keys to select a PT member, but must use arrow keys (or D-Pad on controller I would assume). If you use that command instead, then the macro will work just the way you want it to.

[Guppy]

Or...use windower+spellcast

Unfortunately, while it works fine on my desktop PC, on my laptop Windower causes too much slowdown. I need to shift between the two, so I'd rather keep the two versions synchronized (so currently I use Windower on neither).

So, would the following work though?

/equip Body "Royal Redingote" <-Augmented with Fastcast
/equip Feet "Rostrum Pumps"
/ma "Cure V" <t> <-Target PC to be cured beforehand. Vulnerable to blinking
/equip Body "Noble's Tunic"
/equip Feet "Blessed Pumps"

I would expect <t> to allow the macro to continue through without error, but I'm still not entirely sure if the Fastcast would actually count or not.

[Gergall]

Your best bet is to have a separate fast cast macro that you can use for all spells. Hit it first, then hit your action macros.

Or...use windower+spellcast

Regarding the first option, it seems self-defeating to have to hit two macros just so you can "cast faster". You might even end up being slower!

[Asmoranomar]

Actually, what would happen with that specific macro is that it would do the gear change and bring up a cursor on you at about the same time. The problem is, even on a perfect connection, you are going to lag enough that your cursor will come up, you will will blink, and then lose target thereby canceling the macro entirely.

It doesn't do that for me. I'll change and *then* the cursor will appear, and the other equips give me errors. Basically exactly how I said it above. But...

I would expect <t> to allow the macro to continue through without error, but I'm still not entirely sure if the Fastcast would actually count or not.

Its weird...some/most people would say yes, but I have this weird issue where it doesn't work. I *have* to put a wait in before casting songs for -Song Spellcasting or Fast Cast to work. It might have something to do with the fact that I also use +HP gear to trigger latent on Minstrel's Ring, but even then I've had others do the same thing and tell me it doesn't work that way for them.

What I want to know is, wtf does my macros have to act differently than everyone elses!? (currently my solution is just to hit my -SST/FC/HP+ macros before every song, and then hit the macros that equip of gear i need after the spell starts.)

Regarding the first option, it seems self-defeating to have to hit two macros just so you can "cast faster". You might even end up being slower!

Not when your casting (8 sec) songs and have every piece of -SST/FC gear available to you. Also, splitting up the macros is alot better than using waits. The delay only has to be very short for it to work (thats how it goes for me at least), while using waits you have to use whole seconds.

[Sylvrdragon]

Ohhh I see what's happening now. It's the opposite of what I was saying. If you use <stpc> rather than <stpt> then it will blink you and lose target. <stpt> and <stal> will act the same since the cursor comes up in the same place.

I guess the way it works is that <st> and its variants will pause a macro till you make a decision , but the new <stpt/al> macros will not. As such, it is trying to equip all your stuff at the same time. Let me mess around with it and see if I can come up with a workaround.

[Sylvrdragon]

I made the following macro and it seems to be working:

/equip head "Warlock's Chapeau"
/equip body "Goliard Saio" (just because)
/ma Refresh <stpt>
/equip head "Goliard Chapeau"
/equip body "Wlk. Tabard +1"



As soon as I hit the macro, it will equip the first 2 items. After I select my target, the spell will start and my gear will change. I seem to be getting the Fast Cast effect regardless of how fast I hit the macro, but it's really hard to eyeball it. If I select too fast though, it will not equip the second set (I'm talking instantly though, and you probably can't select that fast unless it's on yourself since you have to scroll through PT members for target).

I tried to make the macro with a longer casting spell like Reraise, but it gave me an error message as you apparently can't do <stpt> with a self only spell.

I also tried starting off in different gear than the Fast Cast and selecting my target relatively quickly (just slow enough to ensure the second change takes place). I switched in and out of the Fast Cast gear so fast that they didn't load, but it appeared to work none-the-less.

To be perfectly honest, this is so hard to tell by the cast bar that I can't give you a definite answer. I can tell you that the gear switches all worked though, I just can't tell if they were under effect yet. I would likely be able to tell a lot easier if I had AFv2 Body, but Glacier hasn't been kind to me.

Also, Cure Clogs > Rostrums.

[shaddix]

you must have a wait between swapping two pieces of gear in the same slot

/equip Body "Royal Redingote" <-Augmented with Fastcast
/equip Feet "Rostrum Pumps"
/ma "Cure V" <t> <-Target PC to be cured beforehand. Vulnerable to blinking
/equip Body "Noble's Tunic"
/equip Feet "Blessed Pumps"

will not work

/equip Body "Royal Redingote" <-Augmented with Fastcast
/equip Feet "Rostrum Pumps"
/ma "Cure V" <t> <-Target PC to be cured beforehand. Vulnerable to blinking
/wait 1
/equip Body "Noble's Tunic"
/equip Feet "Blessed Pumps"

will work


actually to be clear, there has to be a 500~600ms delay between swapping gear in the same slot, so depending on how quickly ffxi macro system works(I don't know I use windower) the first one could work, but i don't see how really, a half a second, it couldn't be that slow.


also to get it out of the way, your cures will heal the target server-side faster than you see it on screen. Also, heals land quicker all the way up to 50%, but teh duration of the cure animation will not be any shorter.

[Max™]

Things execute in order, but certain actions take time to register.

I noticed that when trying my curecheat setup.

/settlers
/serket
/cure 3
/gigant
/sattva
Only cures for swapping in the Gigant.

/settlers
/serket
/cure 3
/wait 1
/gigant
/sattva

Add a /wait 1 and it cures the full -hp > +hp swap, I would assume it would be the same with fast cast.

My Waltz cheat I made has a <stpt> line and no wait, if I double tap it then it won't waltz the full HP difference. I have to hit it once, wait just a little, then trigger it for the full waltz.

Actually I'm gonna try later and see if /hp down, /hp down, /wait 1, /hp up, /hp up, /waltz II works.

[Asmoranomar]

Ohhh I see what's happening now. It's the opposite of what I was saying. If you use <stpc> rather than <stpt> then it will blink you and lose target. <stpt> and <stal> will act the same since the cursor comes up in the same place.

I guess the way it works is that <st> and its variants will pause a macro till you make a decision , but the new <stpt/al> macros will not. As such, it is trying to equip all your stuff at the same time. Let me mess around with it and see if I can come up with a workaround.

SEE!! this is exactly what I was talking about lol

No matter what I use st, stpt, stpc, stal, etc.. It never pauses, it always tries to execute the macro in full, and i get errors about not being able to perform that action on selected sub-target. It doesn't matter what I put in there, it always happens.

[Raineer]

What I would do is a combination of game and Windower macros.

FFXI Macro:
/console exec "firsthalfofgear.txt"
/ma "Cure IV" <stpt> (whatever)
/console exec "secondhalfofgear.txt"

This should make it pause like you need, and still let you use Windower macros.

The other answer is Blinkmenot

[Virtuous Saint]

It is sweet how Fast Cast just does not work occasionally. Not talking macro in Fast Cast, but if you are sitting in full Fast Cast gear and cast and sometimes it just goes off at normal Fast Cast trait time and other times it counts the gear in. SE needs to fix this.

[Asmoranomar]

It is sweet how Fast Cast just does not work occasionally. Not talking macro in Fast Cast, but if you are sitting in full Fast Cast gear and cast and sometimes it just goes off at normal Fast Cast trait time and other times it counts the gear in. SE needs to fix this.

Chances are, your lagged (even briefly). Its usually ok tho, because its the servers that determine when a spell takes effect - meaning if you learn your timing, you can run off part-way thru the cast and have it still go off. Another thing is that most non-rdm jobs only benefit from small fractions of a second on their spells. When your stacked full of gear that reduces your casting time, and your casting times are innately high (like songs for example), you do experience small fluctuations in casting time due to lag. It's still quite noticeable that FC is working though.

I've done much testing to find out how FC works with -Song Spellcasting gear. As long as I was in a relatively empty area (chocobo circuit is a good place) FC always activated and provided very consistent results - Usually along the lines of 1-3 frames (ie: up to a tenth of a second).

[Stumps]

Whenever in doubt if FC is working or not, compare the casting bar with the animation or the effect, if you can see an effect which is not affected or only affected minimally by lag, so much the better.

For instance, my Cure cast time is -45% (Cure Clogs, Light Arts, Cure Cast Time 5/5). The hp of the heal-ee rises at about the 55-60% bar depending on lag.

[Asmoranomar]

Whenever in doubt if FC is working or not, compare the casting bar ...
... the 55-60% bar depending on lag.

The casting bar is completely inaccurate. When casting the same spell the casting bar:
Doesn't always appear at the same time in relation to when the spell starts
Doesn't always start at the same percentage (with no relation to it appearing when it should have)
Doesn't always fill up at the same rate (with no relation or indication of it trying to 'catch up' or 'slow down')
The spell doesn't always finish at the same percentage.

The best way to measure your spells and if fast cast is taking effect, is to measure the time it takes for the spell to start and stop. While the casting bar can be somewhat accurate about half the time, measuring time is more precise and consistent.

Also, the casting bar seems to have no strong correlation to...anything. I personally thought if it wasn't an indication for when the spell actually went off, it had to be a cool-down bar to be able to cast another spells - but this isn't true either. This is extremely evident when you can cast extremely long spells - by using troubadour to double song casting time and then cutting it down with nightingale, FC and -SST gear you can sing your next song before the bar even finishes filling up.

[shaddix]

edit. woops

well I was going to say that cure cast animation does not change past a certain amount of curecast-%/fastcast on cure 3-5, however the speed of hp being healed on the target continues to increase as stumps said.

But what is crappy is the recast is tied to the animation, so if you lag a little bit on whatever spell and don't receive an animation duration decrease, I suspect you also lose the time you save by having the recast timer start earlier. I am not saying you lose the recast savings from fastcast gear because of animation lag.

[Asmoranomar]

Are you measuring the recast based on the time in the GUI? I thought that was already proven long ago that it can be inaccurate. It also doesn't track fractions of a second when displaying it to you. I do know I can sometimes cast spells before their recast is up (IE: spell wont let me select it in the GUI because of recast counter, but I can use a macro or type it out fine).

I personally don't know, but it would be really easy to test:
Cast a spell, pull the network cable
Wait a decent amount of time without d/c'ing
Plug it back in
Attempt to recast sooner than the recast says you can, also try to make note if the recast 'corrects' itself.

It sounds really dumb that the recast start would be dependent on the client, but then again - we are talking about SE's coding. I mean - the delay on crafting was client driven (idk if it still is), so it could be.

[Yugl]

Does anyone know if SCH AF Feet work the same way as Fast Cast? More specifically, if I use the macro type mentioned above (Where the equip is macroed in before the cast, but macroed out after the start of the cast), will I receive the Fast Cast bonus?

[shaddix]

Server controls the start and ending of the animation. I guess recast goes along with the beginning of the end of the animation? Obviously the menu recast is taken from the server otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the recast of ja after you logoff/logon. I don't see how the menu recast can be more than half a second off