Yuki/Gekko/Kasha Attack bonus Testing

[Yarko]

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The most up-to-date conclusions can be found @ post 111
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I've been running some Tachi: Gekko attack bonus tests lately, and I think I have found out some interesting results that I wish to share. I'm sorry if I'm not as good as Kaeko/Rukenshin at laying tests out, but I did my best. Feel free to correct any mistakes and give feedback.


PART #1

Goal of the first test is to find out the new pDIF cap.

Target:
WW Mobs.

My stats:
With Soboro: Base Damage = WD + fSTR = 40 + 12 = 52
With Ushikirimaru: Base Damage = WD + fSTR = 82 + 17 = 99

Formula:

pDIF = DMG / Base Damage

Results:

Soboro:
Lowest hit: 99 = 1,903 pDIF
Highest hit: 140 = 2,692 pDIF

Ushi:
Lowest hit: 192 = 1,939 pDIF
Highest hit: 269 = 2,717 pDIF

capped pDIF now seems to fluctuate between 1,900 and 2,700 (results for Ushikirimaru are a bit off, I suspect that the real Base Damage for Ushi is somehow 100, but it doesn't matter).

I did the same test for WS damage and capped pDIF came out to be 1,9~2,7 for Weapon Skills too.


PART #2

Goal of this test is to find out pDIF during Gekko, Yukikaze and Kasha WSs.

Target:
Steelshell LV 73~75
DEF: 354, 360, 366

My stats:
Attack: 403
STR: 114
Overwhelm LV1
Base Damage (Soboro) = Weapon Damage + fSTR = 40 + 6 = 46
WSC: 114 * 0.75 * 0.83 = 70

ATK/DEF = 403 / 360 = ~1,12


Formula:

pDIF = DMG / Overwhelm DMG Bonus / fTP / (Base Damage + WSC)
WS pDIF = Average between Highest pDIF and Lowest.
Attack Bonus = WS pDIF / (ATK/DEF)

Results:

Lowest Gekko: TP 108 DMG 363
pDIF = 363 / 1.05 / ~1.58 / 116 = ~1,9

Highest Gekko: TP 129 DMG 530
pDIF = 530 / 1.05 / ~1.65 / 116 = ~2,65


Lowest Yukikaze: TP 108 DMG 226
pDIF = ~1,1

Highest Yukikaze: TP 104 DMG 363
pDIF = ~1,9


Lowest Kasha: TP 126 DMG 255
pDIF = ~1,3

Highest Kasha: TP 108 DMG 411
pDIF = ~2,1


pDIF seems to be capped for Gekko, while it is not for Kasha and Yukikaze.

Yukikaze:
Attack bonus = WS pDIF / (ATK/DEF) = 1,5 / 1,12 = ~1,33 (+33%)
Kasha:
Attack bonus = WS pDIF / (ATK/DEF) = 1,7 / 1,12 = ~1,51 (+50%)
Gekko:
Attack bonus = WS pDIF / (ATK/DEF) = 2,3 / 1,12 = ~2,05 (+100%), at least, since pDIF appears to be capped.

Damage for YGK is the same only if +33% attack bonus is enough to be capped on pDIF?


PART #3

Goal of this test is to find out the attack bonus for Gekko WS.

Target:
Steelshell LV 73~75 during Scissor Guard
DEF (doubled): 708, 720, 732

My stats:
Attack: 501
STR: 108
Overwhelm LV3
Base Damage (Soboro) = Weapon Damage + fSTR = 40 + 4 = 44
WSC: 108 * 0.75 * 0.83 = 67

ATK/DEF = 501 / 720 = ~0,7


Formula:

pDIF = DMG / Overwhelm DMG Bonus / fTP / (Base Damage + WSC)

Attack Bonus = WS pDIF / (ATK/DEF)


Results:

Lowest Gekko: TP 100 DMG 202
pDIF = ~1,0

Highest Gekko: TP 138 DMG 383
pDIF = ~1,8

Attack bonus = WS pDIF / (ATK/DEF) = 1,4 / 0,7 = ~2,0 (+100%)

Attack calculated for Gekko seems to be exactly doubled.


PART #4

Goal of this last test is to find out if the Attack gets capped at 999, and if the attack bonus is really +100% and not just a straight +400/500 attack.

Target:
Again Steelshells during Scissor Guard.

My stats:
Attack: 627
STR: 108
Overwhelm LV3
Base Damage (Soboro) = Weapon Damage + fSTR = 40 + 4 = 44
WSC: 108 * 0.75 * 0.83 = 67

ATK/DEF = 627 / 720 = ~0,87


Formula:

pDIF = DMG / Overwhelm DMG Bonus / fTP / (Base Damage + WSC)

Attack Bonus = WS pDIF / (ATK/DEF)


Results:

Lowest Gekko: TP 133 DMG 284
pDIF = ~1,35

Highest Gekko: TP 129 DMG 439
pDIF = ~2,10

WS pDIF = ~1,72

Attack = Defense * WS pDIF = 720 * ~1,72 = ~1250 = ~ (627 x 2).

Attack is definitely doubled, and is not capped at 999.

[Ophannus]

Layman's terms please

[lolwut]

Layman's terms please

We all Gekko in Smilo+1 now.

[Redshift]

How many trials were done for each test?

We all Gekko in Smilo+1 now.

Would depend on what buffs you have.

[VZX]

Good enough, I'll try to play more with your data now.

May I ask how many data points you use for each test?

Also, it'll be good if you can find your real pDIF on those crabs, instead using atk/def. Because they are not quite exactly the same.

[Yarko]

Depends, for the second test I think I had about 40 Gekkos data (I was focussing on Gekko at the time), 10 Yukis and 10 Kasha.

Third and fourth tests were a bit harder and time consuming, since I had to wait for the crab to use Scissor Guard, so I was satisfied when 2 WSs had a 0.8ish pDIF gap, because I knew I had hit lowest and highest pDIF, or at least went close to it.

Also, it'll be good if you can find your real pDIF on those crabs

I do have some data about normal hits pDIF fluctuation too, but the average seems to always be, or at least very close to, ATK/DEF value.

For instance:

ATK/DEF = 1,13
pDIF 0,83~1,48 (-0,3 ; +0,35)

ATK/DEF = 1,787 (Colibri)
pDIF 1,34~2,23 (-0,45; +0,45)

ATK/DEF = capped, 2.3?
pDIF 1,9~2,7 (-0,4 ; +0,4)

and so on.

So, without knowing the actual pDIF fluctuation formula, i think that just using the ATK/DEF value is a good approximation.

[Tormentormike]

Regardless of what you do, I think you suck! You should stop going RDM to everything so I can attempt to tank at some point. Except Dark Ixion, fuck him.

:[

[Corruption]

Damn sounds pretty interesting... If it is true and you get enough testing done to definitely proof this than you win the coveted...

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7...awesomepk1.jpg

Award!

[Max™]

Now that makes more sense than the general "Y/G/K have a huge buff talk you keep hearing", Gekko clearly got most of the pie there.

[Lyramion]

Funny how Gekko has all the things you´d wish from a relic WS lol

[Nameless]

do you happen to know the vit of those crabs? I am going to retest spinning slash with the same method. Thanks.

[Yarko]

do you happen to know the vit of those crabs? I am going to retest spinning slash with the same method. Thanks.

I found it on a page linked from StudioGobli. This

The values are

LV73 VIT 93
LV74 VIT 94
LV75 VIT 96


I was planning to test SS, Ground Strike, Spiral Hell and Cross Reaper attack bonus too sometime, let me know your results!

[Max™]

Given that the calculated damages I've worked out for Steel Cyclone and Ground Strike came down to the exact difference between weapon damage and Vit or Int, I'll hazard a guess that they will be identical on any hidden attack boost if there is one.

[el_tio]

This idea's already been around the block a little:

Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: Samurai

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-standard-discussion/67019-spinning-slash-ground-strike-gekko-etc-hidden-attack-bonus.html

Always good to see new data tho.

This might sound like a "duh" question but has anyone retested 2ndary mods/FTP recently?

[chazzyphizzle]

These tests will finally stop people from claiming Y/G/K are exactly the same, those bastards.

[VZX]

They are the "same" as far as the base damage goes.
No one really try to compare the attack buff (or conversely, defense ignore, if you want to call it that way) of those 3.

Yuki: Defense *= 3/4
Gekko: Defense *= 1/2
Kasha: Defense *= 2/3

[Max™]

Ignores defense makes more sense.... it was bugging me that it suggested a 1200 Attack, just because coding that would be hell with the way the game is set up.

[Suiram]

I thought it was already proven you could go above 999 attack (even as the game still displays 999) from people testing with Boost.

Anyway, I remember a huge thread from like 2006 where this was a big argument. I think it ended with Rukenshin performing a similar test on Steelshells, but I don't think he backsolved for pDIF with it like the OP. Very interesting information.

[Yarko]

Thinking about it afterwards, it could be neither an atk bonus nor a defense negation.

What about a Ratio multiplier for single hit WSs? Where Ratio is ATK/DEF value. Something like:

Multihit WS formula: Base Damage * (fTP+extra hits) * ((Ratio - Lv Correction)+-pDIF fluctuation)

Some (all?) single hit WS: Base Damage * fTP * ((Ratio * Multiplier - Lv Correction) +/-pdIF fluctuation)


Just speculating here, but it could make sense.

Given that the calculated damages I've worked out for Steel Cyclone and Ground Strike came down to the exact difference between weapon damage and Vit or Int

Hmm this is very interesting. Where is the "STR/INT - Weapon damage" inserted in the formula according to your tests? Can you link the thread?

[Max™]

It's added to the base damage, just a WS mod, 50% Str/Vit for Steel, 50% Str/Int for Gstrike, everything else seems identical between them besides the SC placement.