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  1. #1

    A great idea for helix application

    this likely is a stupid idea with no applications if it even works that will crash and burn in 20 seconds, so i'll try to keep it short, but it's still an interesting thought experiment.

    Questions:
    does modus veritas round up or down the number of ticks left on a helix? if it rounds up, this would mean using veritas with an odd number of ticks left would functionally give it another tick, or if used on the last tick, double the remaining damage.
    does modus veritas stack with multiple scholars using it on the same mob? IE, if the initial damage was for 100 and 2 sch use veritas, would it reduce the duration to 1/4th the expected duration and quadruple the damage output?

    Application:
    for this thought experiment, let's assume that the above assumptions hold. if either of the above does not hold, this entire experiment is rendered impossible.
    let's also assume we have a large number of sch on hand. (say 10, just for this experiment. this obviously isn't practical, just theory.) assume one scholar stuck a helix effect with ES for 150 (again, this is a number i pulled out of my hat. it's very plausible w/ an MB or something else to push it far higher i'd imagine.) if all sch were to activate veritas at the same time, the next tick (and you can bet the last) would deal 150*2^10=153,600 damage. despite being impractical to pull off, improbable that it will work, and a nightmare to manage, virtually any NM in the game could be 1 shotted with an ES helix/veritas round.

    again, a lot of assumptions had to be made on this, and due to the recast on the JA, it's not repeatable enough to be applicable in situations with more than 1 target. still, the astronomical numbers involved in this are alluring, considering the maximum theoretical damage exceeds even the obscenely high HP of AV or ToAU kings. granted, i'm sure AV would have some other trick up his sleeve (when does he not? i'm not deluding myself into think that this will solve the AV problem.) but it might make ToAU kings or vrtra far more palatable to a smaller crowd if it does.

  2. #2
    Relic Shield
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    Re: an idiot's idea for helix application

    Is that even how Modus Veritas works? Where do you get 2^10 from?

  3. #3

    Re: an idiot's idea for helix application

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferien
    Is that even how Modus Veritas works? Where do you get 2^10 from?
    veritas is a JA that's used on the mob a helix is on, per the scholar discussion thread. it doubles the tick damage of the helix while halving its duration. if multiple veritas stack, each one would be double the result from the last. IE the first veritas would make the next tick double from 150 to 300. then the next would be from 300 to 600 and on up. thus the compounded effect would be 2*(2*(base)) or base*2^2 in the above situation. when we use 10 veritas instead of 2, the exponent becomes 10. it's the geometric growth of the effect that makes this possible, if the effect of veritas works as i've hypothesized.

  4. #4

    Re: an idiot's idea for helix application

    pretty much nothing in this game rounds up when it can round down, and while it is possible, I seriously doubt modus veritas would break that mould.

  5. #5
    Yoshi P
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    Re: an idiot's idea for helix application

    Quote Originally Posted by Spekkio
    but it might make ToAU kings or vrtra far more palatable to a smaller crowd if it does.
    You can already 5-6 man Cerb or Khim.

  6. #6

    Re: an idiot's idea for helix application

    Quote Originally Posted by Therin
    Quote Originally Posted by Spekkio
    but it might make ToAU kings or vrtra far more palatable to a smaller crowd if it does.
    You can already 5-6 man Cerb or Khim.
    whoops! dropped a word. i meant the beastman kings nobody kills because they suck to get to and they suck harder to kill. i'm not talking about lolcerb.

  7. #7

    Re: an idiot's idea for helix application

    beastman kings are killable with a smaller crowd than toau kings <,<

    edit: oh you meant the TOAU beastman kings my bad D: (i'm an idiot ;3)

  8. #8
    Tonko
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    Re: A great idea for helix application

    Spekkio's idea is confirmed to work. Good job man.

  9. #9
    CustomTitle
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    HOT LITTLE SNATCH

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    Re: A great idea for helix application

    So who's gonna be first to down AV with an alliance of SCH?

  10. #10
    Kaeko
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    Re: A great idea for helix application

    I can't believe this works lol...

    Also regarding the feasibility issue. The ticks seem long enough (10ish seconds?) to be able to apply Modus Veritas > Wild Card > Modus Veritas if you're very quick. This would halve the # of SCH needed to produce the same results if done correctly.

  11. #11
    Smells like Onions
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    Re: A great idea for helix application

    What is confirmed and how was it done? how many sch?
    I'm guessing veritas stacking was confirmed but does it multiply the damage by 2 each time or just add the initial damage again? (ex: 150+150+150 instead of 150*2*2)

  12. #12
    Kaeko
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    Re: A great idea for helix application

    Quote Originally Posted by Clydearrowny
    What is confirmed and how was it done? how many sch?
    I'm guessing veritas stacking was confirmed but does it multiply the damage by 2 each time or just add the initial damage again? (ex: 150+150+150 instead of 150*2*2)
    Kohanacat tested Luminohelix...

    Did 59 initial damage. She then used MV and the ticks went to 118. A COR 2hred and she did MV again, bringing the last tick to 236. So it looks like it stacks instead of just adding initial damage (x2x2)

  13. #13
    Relic Shield
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    Re: A great idea for helix application

    Needs to be tested using multiple SCH's before it can really be confirmed.

  14. #14

    Re: A great idea for helix application

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferien
    Needs to be tested using multiple SCH's before it can really be confirmed.
    couldn't agree more. though the evidence so far is compelling in that the experimental results conformed exactly with the hypothesized, not only does the other half, the duration, need to be verified, but so too must their functioning together in concert. until this can be distilled into a repeatable set of events that can be executed at will and produce exactly the same results every time, it's still all theory.

  15. #15
    Sea Torques
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    Re: an idiot's idea for helix application

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii
    pretty much nothing in this game rounds up when it can round down, and while it is possible, I seriously doubt modus veritas would break that mould.
    It might be a mistake in SCH coding but the 50% JAs round up even if they are used on even number cost spells. IE 12 becomes 7, not 6.

  16. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by Halion View Post
    It might be a mistake in SCH coding but the 50% JAs round up even if they are used on even number cost spells. IE 12 becomes 7, not 6.
    that's because the 50%mp JAs do 50% off the spell's normal cost (the cost if you don't have your arts on) so it's the difference of your 90% mp spell vs a 50% mp spell, that's why you get 12 becoming 7, the 12 is was a 13 (though in that case it'd be 6mp)

    better example is Cure II (24mp), 22mp with light arts, Penury cure II would be 12mp (1/2 of 24) not 11mp (half of 22)

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